September 05 - wishing us all a peaceful night's sleep please!

[PiccadillyCircus]

Hoping this title will inspire my small daughter to sleeeeeeeeeep.

Ho everyone.

Lovely to see you Franch.

Sorry about DNM Wabbit but at least it helped you to learn something about your readiness

Ych - glad the, er, incident wasn't too horrific.

My little Alice has no teeth PC. We're not expecting any soon since dd1 was 15 months before she got her 1ST TOOTH!!!!!

Alice is still doing poorly in the daytime nap department. I keep trying and keep hoping.....

So, about this Kew gardens meet-up. The train is out of the question for me. :( 3 changes and 2.5 hours. You wouldn't think I live just 60 miles south of London. I'm a bit nervous about driving inside of the M25... I don't think I'd cope with 2 children in a traffic jam. I'd be coming from the A3, joining the M25 and then joining the M4. Anyone know the journey I'd have to do from there to Kew Gardens? Is it a bad one one/easy one. It's so long since I drove anywhere near to London.

How would everyone else be arriving? Who is definitely going?

Re holidays - we're away from the end of July, courtesy of my parents. We're going with them to a villa in Spain. My brother, SIL and 2 children (aged 6 and 18 months) will be going too. That holiday is keeping me sane through this extended winter. Well, barely.

So, question... when do they stop calling depression postnatal depression and just call it depression? When I took the PND test at Alice's 3 month appointment, my score was low and all felt rosy. Now, 5 months on, I think my score is higher. I don't think I have been in denial about being depressed for 8 months! But, certainly, the past few months I have been feeling worse and not better. I can't tell how much is weather related and tiredness related.... but my symptoms, when written down, appear to be increasing. I'm rambling here.... not sure why, just having a rough few days. any viewpoints would be appreciated. I have suffered from depression twice before in my early 20s and it doesn't feel like that but I don't feel 100% normal either. But who does when at home with two young children?! :)

They still classed it as PND at 8 months for my first journey into the terrible world that is PND.

Lots of messages - sorry if I miss anyone out!

Wabbit - what will be will be and if the fling with nm served a purpose in allowing you to move on, then that's a positive thing. You've got the rebound out of the way IYSWIM. :)

Rhumba - hope the party went/goes well. Lucy's birthday is in July and as we will be overrun with builders we're planning to have a partybus at DH's work. Should be good fun as the cost includes entertainment (my worst thing) and am sharing the cost with a friend who has a dd with a birthday shortly after Lucy's.

Beattie - oh I so know how you feel. I find myself wondering... is this depression or am I just not doing well enough? Sometimes get this feeling like an adrenaline surge - the fight or flight response comes on and as I'm obviously not going to fight I sometimes wish I could just go for a drive/get out of the house ON MY OWN! But I don't and I have good days and bad days and sometimes good AND bad days. Think part of my problem is that dd is both lovely and awful at the same time. One minute sunshine and the next showers. But I think this reflects my moods so exactly that it can't be a coincidence so am trying desperately hard to be positive, positive, positive. Also, Tom is so lovely and easy in comparison. His need aren't complex and he's easily pleased, so no wonder I see dd as being difficult but that doesn't stop me having dread panics that this is how I'm going to feel forever.
Am trying very hard to have time with just dd as I miss the one to one time I used to have with her.
Anyway - that's enough of that. Think that on balance I'm not depressed but am just finding it hard to adjust to new SAHMotherhood, having 2 children and feeling less of a person in my own right. But may mention how I feel to the HV when Tom has his 7-9 month check later this month.
On the bright side...
Tom crawling like mad and getting himself into trouble all the time. Am in the process of risk assessing on a daily basis particularly since he managed 2 stairs yesterday and has started to pull himself up on furniture as well . Is incredibly cuddly and has started to crawl onto my lap for a hug (grumbling the whole way with the effort of crawling). Has 2 bottom teeth and is about to get more on top I think.
dd makes him laugh so much - more than me and dh put together and she is absolutely brilliant with him. Obvioulsy watched us putting our hands over table corners to stop him bashing himself and does it herself now to protect him.
Mummyhill - hope work not too tiring and that you're getting more rest.
PC - glad alice settled well at nursery.
YCH - poor you with the lost tampon. Am impressed though as I still haven't had any periods (not jealous though )
Nikkinoo - sorry about your car.
Jaamy - Tom seems to be eating very much the same amount/type of food. Has dropped to about 4 breast feeds a day now.
Good luck with the driving Bubbles.
Hipe you had fun in the States SR.
Hi Franch! Good to catch up.
Hope haven't missed anyone out.

Crikey - that was a bit of an epic I'm afraid
What are the symptoms of PND btw?
Would it be likely that physical symptoms may indicate PND - I've developed exzema since Tom was born. Never had it before. Also headaches, tiredness (join the club) and just generally feel under par. Have found out that am anaemic and I suppose most of these symptoms could relate to that (saw consultant who suggested blood tests to check whether lack of iron was causing itching).

Crikey - that was a bit of an epic I'm afraid
What are the symptoms of PND btw?
Would it be likely that physical symptoms may indicate PND - I've developed exzema since Tom was born. Never had it before. Also headaches, tiredness (join the club) and just generally feel under par. Have found out that am anaemic and I suppose most of these symptoms could relate to that (saw consultant who suggested blood tests to check whether lack of iron was causing itching).

Hi Beatie and Pooka - sorry I don't know anything about PND and can't offer any words of wisdom, only sympathy.

Beatie - If Kew is impossible for you we can always make arrangements for our meet-up to be in Central London... I would then be able to ditch the car at XP's and tube it in from Bushey or Watford...

I'm throwing ideas around so I can make it possible for as many of us that want to, get to meet eachother...

Jaamy - we can move the time to lunch time - How about...

North Meet - FRIDAY 14th JULY 1pm - Cafe Nero, Chester?

Is there anyone out there from the south who would object to a Central London meet? Tuesday July 25th - time and place yet to be arranged and any really good suggestions very welcome!

Nikkinoo will you be joining us you're going to be closer to London I'm sure?

It'd be great if I can start to compile a list of those wanting to join in

Pooka - I have to smile at your Tom grumbling his way to you for a cuddle - sounds so sweet I want to cuddle him from here!

Mummyhill - can you devise a teeny muzzle for the offending squirrel so it doesn't happen again - sorry to hear you've had to shell out on more antibiotics for your kitty.

Thankyou all for your comiserations on possible NM not working out... Yes - it has been a learning process and it's made me realise how un-ready I am to jump into a new relationship... I'm happy still though

Right better get back to my essay on Citizenship urgh and double urgh... it's dull!

Wabbitt - please don't change plans on my account. I have a feeling I'd struggle to central London via trains with Alice and 3.5 year old.

So, who is going? How are you travelling? Where are you coming from?

Pooka - I'm gald I am not alone in the way I am feeling but also not glad that you are going through this too. I feel all the things you do and I am trying my best to take a positive approach. I think I feel too good on my good days to be truly depressed.... plus, my bad day can easily be changed into a good day. I also need to not be so hard on myself and to stop having the expectation of life being perfect.

Like with Tom, dd1 is able to make Alice giggle with the utterance of one word or simply by jumping up and down on the spot. I have far too much video of these moments.

I too would like to spend more alone time with dd1. I miss the old her and need to find her again. Last week we ended up in a Starbucks, all 3 of us, and dd1 had her first hot chocolate. She drank it with a straw. I sat her and Alice down at the table with sofas and went to colelct the drinks. I came back to find dd1 had pulled over a hard chair for herself and was sat very nicely on it. She said "I've got a big chair" and she sat and drank her hot chocolate looking all grown up. :( I think I will make it a weekly Saturday or Sunday morning event for me and her to pop into the next village and have a drink and cake at one of the little tea-shops.

Ooh beatie, dd sounds so sweet. quite a few friends still have just one and I have moments when i really envy them having the free dom and time with them.

Won't be able to make the 25th july as we fly up to inverness the weekend before for our two week holiday (lots of sunshine???)Maybe another time. sorry.

That's such a good idea Beattie - just an hour for mum and daughter to have a coffee/hot chocolate together. Sure that'd be do-able.
Right back at you with the good days and bad days. Should add that dd has had cold after cold after cold since she started pre-school so grumpiness understandable. Had a good chat with my mum today and she buoyed me up a bit by saying I was doing all I could to concentrate on dd and that the guilt is just part and parcel of having more than one child.
We're off to the south of France in june with my father, step-mother, both brothers and their girlfriends. Have stayed in the same house (owned by my father's friend) many times. it has a pool and a hot tub and we will have our own suite of 2 bedrooms and a bathroom so am really looking forward to it. :)

Hi wabbit yes I would prefer london as it is only an hour away by train, hopefully will have my sorrowful finances sorted by then too!

Listening to some of you relaying your expereinces of not having the time for your older children is really something that i battled with when I had my second child. There is 22 months between them, the way. Personally I felt is that for what i was taking away from them with time I was rewarding them with a sibling who would be with them for the rest of their lives and hopefully be a friend, support etc, this was confirmed only a few weeks ago when I was listening to my two gossiping about school and my son was telling my daughter which child is friendly and who to avoid and I just thought thats great that is what brotherly/sisterly love is all about.

Thanks Nikkinoo - I occasionally have to remind myself that however guilty I feel that dd has lost my full-beam attention, I'd feel much more guilty if she was an only child having to look after me in my dotage Also... am sure that at some point she will be bored sick of full-beam attention and will be telling me to bog off.

Can't get to the meet-ups - & wish everyone all the best with arranging these.

Can't believe the summer holidays will be here so soon. Just thinking of last year when I was so huge & the weather so hot - me running after 3 kids - I was so tired but had to keep going. Now have ds4 to follow as he's mobile!! moving by pushing himself on his tum. Saw a baby of 17 months today & ds4 was bigger! love to all :)

Pooka and Beatie - I think that I may be you!!!!
Pooka - You posted, "Sometimes get this feeling like an adrenaline surge - the fight or flight response comes on and as I'm obviously not going to fight I sometimes wish I could just go for a drive/get out of the house ON MY OWN! But I don't and I have good days and bad days and sometimes good AND bad days. Think part of my problem is that dd is both lovely and awful at the same time. One minute sunshine and the next showers. But I think this reflects my moods so exactly that it can't be a coincidence so am trying desperately hard to be positive, positive, positive. Also, Tom is so lovely and easy in comparison. His need aren't complex and he's easily pleased, so no wonder I see dd as being difficult but that doesn't stop me having dread panics that this is how I'm going to feel forever." Change the names and that would be me - That is EXACTLY how I feel. I have put it down to a lack of sleep as DD1 has stopped sleeping through and so keeps herself and me constantly tired. Like your Tom, DD2 is a sweetheart and thankfully a really easy baby. Have decided that I need to have more time for myself, whether or not that happens remains to be seen. BTW your holiday destination in France sounds divine!
And Beatie - "I too would like to spend more alone time with dd1. I miss the old her and need to find her again" - this is me too! Love the sound of your grown up coffee mornings.
Nikinoo - yes, I am hopeful that one day my girls will be grateful that we had them close together.
Hope everyone else is ok.
Fri 14th July 1pm is fine for me...who else would be joining me in Chester??

I'm hoping for four of us Jaamy

Mummyhill
Jaamy
Bubbles
Me

Just want to persuade bubbles to meet - she left an e-mail address on the last thread - might see if I can unearth it and leave her a message... maybe she's more access to e-mail than the frivolities of MN! (I think MN's a necessity by the way - it's kept me from many a moment of morbid self indulgence!)

Night night xx

I can only do it if a) I can get the evening off work as it would be a fair jaunt to do there and to be back in time to get ready and into work for 6.45pm. and b) Dh either books it off or can get a lift home. If he books it however he may gate crash iyswim.

In case I cannot book it off there are a couple of other meets for the midlands if any of you can make them

\link{http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk?topicid=1368&threadid=167927&stamp=060511224213\Here}

\link{http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk?topicid=1368&threadid=171102&stamp=060511235841\or here}

We also do a large picnic in Sutton Park in the Summer Hols (Note to self must post on the board re this one or it will slip through the net)

\link{http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk?rn=73077&topicid=1368&threadid=172578&redir=73077/Sutton Park Meet}

Sorry can't get link to work it was supposed to send you to the Sutton Park Picnic thread started this morning by me.

Hello everyone :)

Hope you're all having a nice weekend.

Thanks Mummyhill x

Shattered. Did my 9 hour stint today.

Just got a load of bambino mia prefolds and have been trying them today. Need to get some shapped nappies for nights so that dh will put him in them. I never realised how much disposables smell before converting to cloth (am I the only one?) So can those using cloth nappies make any night time suggestions????

I wold use a fleece booster in them, but i use tots bots which are really padded with terry material anyway. yes they do smell dont they really uriney (if thats a word!)

Why dont you buy a few motherease all in ones for the night as you may make the money back later in resale and also a financial contribution from your local council. From what people have said these are really good for the night and are shaped like a disposable so your dh wont find them hard to use.

Im going to invest in a fluffles pack of 3 as they are thinner than the regular tots bots, my charlotte is sometimes loosing her centre of gravity and toppling over with her big bum nappies on.

Wabbit will e mail you. I dont know where to start though as having a moment of revelation and needing to get life back on track style intentions x.

mummyhill - we use a pre-fold with a thick fleece booster on Alice for night-times and sometimes a ME onesize loaded with a pre-fold as a booster.

I prefer the Pre-fold on her at night as she is very wet in the morning and hate how the whole of a fitted nappy is drenched through. Whereas the pre-fold with a booster contains the majority of the wetness in the booster and keeps the wet away from Alice's skin.

When she was small, I liked Tots-Bots for night-times because of their absorbency and great fit.

Mummyhill - "Just got a load of bambino mia prefolds and have been trying them today" I have bizarre image in head of you trying on the nappies yourself!! Sorry.

Jaamy - LOL wish I was that thin but don't think I need nappies again just yet, pelvic floor hasn't quite given up the ghost yet!!!!