Dec 08 Mums - Introducing our new joiners, TrudyV and Al Fresco...

[Beans33]

Hope this is ok? Thought it was subtle enough for the wider MN and not offensive!!

hi.
Just off to bed but didn't want to let jj's post go. I am so sorry things are so tough. It sounds impossibly difficult and you are doing an amazing job. As others have said, sleep deprivation is a killer and makes everything even harder than it would be. Re the anger, it is entirely understandable because you just can't control the screaming and you feel powerless to change anything. Now, I hope this doesn't offend, and I do tend to ask the 'not sure if I know you well enough to say this' questions, but do you think you are safe around her? I mean, is there a part of you that could believe you could harm her? I wonder if it's worth talking to your HV about how you're feeling? Is your HV good? I don't want to upset you by asking that - and I don't need you to answer on here, just ask yourself. This phase is very tough, but you are doing such a fantastic job and this too shall pass. Much love xxx

My phone battery died but bizarrely it managed to post half my message. I was almost finished a long speel on the anger bit. I will briefly recap as I need to sleep. I think its good to recognise those feelings, but as many of us have had them maybe they are a little internal warning system telling us we need to step back. I know its tough and you don't want DH to be tired for work, but I think you need to put those ear plugs in and let DH deal with it every few nights. Also how old is DD2 now? Could you express? Or could DH just find some hold positions that help relieve her tummy and do them. DH has a way of holding DS2 that still is the best way to settle him if he really distressed and I don't seem to be able to do it.

Right bed for me, I have managed to re swell up my ankle (you can tell I'm a HCP by my use of superior hard to understand medical jargon). The non slip matt on our bathtub, slipped while I waa getting out, and I think my ankle kind of jarred and it has gone from almost resembling an ankle again, back to elephant ankle. Boo goo.

Boo goo? & I've missed two posts, gotta sleep.

Sorry JJ I remember that feed cry feed cry thing in the beginning due to Tongue tie / latch probs / colic etc, but then I had to switch to expressing and then FF quite early so it all sort of got better after that. Until the last couple of weeks I hadn't slept more than 4 hrs in a stretch I'd say but I didn't have the screaming in between as I could do mid of night feeds half asleep but I know that sleep deprivation is evil. I second SL's suggestion as it sounds quite bad so perhaps full BF isn't for you anymore. Can you express and see if DH can give her a bottle so you can rest? You know it gets better x

Lady @ you on the bins in your holy jumper! And eek at the sweetbreads. I ate it once in a posh restaurant in napa and didn't know what it was then!

SL the last few days have been much improved. I have noticed that she isn't coughing now so I think her delayed not sleeping through was a lot to do with her being ill with that cough / cold hanging on. The plug in thing in her room did wonders. The last couple of nights she has gone 7-1130 then bottle (which I wait up for) then 1130-7 or even 8 (this morning) fingers crossed. Good luck with H too.

Sorry - had more as have read through but can't remember oh yes I have had another reaction to Chinese Takeaway. DH says I need to do a Take away elimination diet not sure what's going on with this as I've never had a problem before the last THREE from different places!!

Arti - my friend leaked about 18 months after BF stopped. Good luck get it checked though. Perhaps you are clackered? And you lady??

Vag at your cat in the WM!

Oh, dear JJ, I am so sorry things are so rotten. I am sure I must sound like a stuck record, but is there anyone local who could take her off your hands for a few hours to give you a break? I think DD1 goes to nursery so if you could marry up the 2, it might give you the time you need to catch up a little. When M was born, I got a fluey cold about 2 weeks in and DH was back to work. I got my ex cleaner's 16 y old daughter to take the girls for a push round the block so I could sleep and it did me the world of good.

Have you got a cleaner / babysitter / surrogate granny who could take her and not be fazed by a few tears, so you could have a rest? Heck, if I were closer I'd be happy to sling her for a few hours and have a nice walk round. I don't think you have aproblem with anger, I just think you are shattered. Evrything seems so much more acute when you are beyond tired. I had similar with DD1 and at times felt a bit drunk annd unsafe as I was so shattered. I never had any luck with dummies but think it is worth trying. Am thnking of you all my lovely. Big hugs and lots of love XXX

Bit tied up at the mo and will be back tomorrow, but really wanted to reply to JJ. Oh my ears and whiskers, you poor dear girl. The longest stretch of sleep you have had since E was born is 3 hours?? OK, so that's 3 months of it??? It is a miracle you can even think to type. What you describe is extremely punishing. I know you know this but I just want to underline it because you sound down on yourself. I think ANYONE would feel just like you (I would - in fact, I tell you now, JJ, I'd have cracked long ago with so little sleep).

1. Your support network isn't gone. Everyone is here and listening to you and cheering you on.
2. I am a bf ignoramus and do not want to say the wrong thing or trample on anyone's prized ideals, and just am not up on the technicalities but if you could try what SL suggests, might it be worth a go? If that's just not the way you want to go, never mind. Same with the dummy. I just feel that if you are feeling like you are at your limit, anything's worth a go. Again, sorry to be ignorant but are you/can you express so you can leave her with a friend for an hour or whatever so you can just get your breath or try to have a quick sleep? Could you even hire someone for a short time? Sorry if that's not practical.
3. I bet your DH isn't wondering why are you finding it so hard. And if he is, well, no disrespect to him but if he'd had barely any sleep for three months whilst micromanaging a tiny screaming baby and a busy toddler, he would know that even just existing is quite hard.
4. So...can you sit down with him and say you need to work in some extra support and make a list, together, of ways you can think of to lighten your load a bit. Two heads are better than one.
5. I guess with your DH doing what he does for a living you have eliminated any possible physical causes for her yelling a lot?

Hopefully else will come on with more suggestions but really just wanted to say hang on in there. I know it's excruciating, but you are being a Trojan and, infinitesimally, without you noticing at first, it will start to get better. It always does.

Oh I know what I wanted to ask - RudyT I've had a a phobia of needles as long as I can remember - not too bad 1st pregnancy but passed out in theatre having the iv done (feeling woozy typing this) I feel I've got better (slightly) as I've got older but very interested in the hypnotherapy you had. Are you totally fine now? What exactly do they do if you don't mind me asking?

Gets some sleep Vagola! Oh I have those individual little non slip animals that stick to the bottom of the bath and they slip too! Sorry about the ankle what a bugger.

JJ just wanted to post huge hugs and sympathy from craptastic phone. Am wondering similar thoughts about me and dd1. Today, after a bout of manic naughtiness, I laid her on the bed, sat on top of her to keep her still, made her look me in the eye and told her how upset she made me. It sounds so innocuous writing it, but I was so full of fury and I think I was pretty nasty to her. Have felt terrible all eve.

I have x-posted with a few as I was typing at a snail's pace but just to Trace and Rubes, I am NOT clackered! I got my period today, phew. I started taking the Metformin again the other day, (naughty, as I haven't seen the endocrinologist but I have several months' supply and so I thought I'd give it a whirl and, hey presto). When you suggested it, though, Trace, I did have a few seconds of "Whoooooooaaaah! Could I be?" but then I remembered my period turning up earlier and, conversely, couldn't actually remember the last time I did the deed Oh dear.

Sweetbreads - Vag, he didn't freeze them cos he only bought them on Friday afternoon and was thinking they still be good Monday evening (insofar as they can ever be 'good').

Aaaaargh, I am somehow back on the sweetbreads again so I must go

I too wanted to leave a message for Jump before turning in for the night - see how many of us are here for you at the click of a mouse. Loads of great suggestions above. I can't comment on the anger at having to deal with 2, but I remember feeling trapped and resentful of BF when DD was about the same age - bonding, my arse, at that moment in time it was the exact opposite of bonding. Don't get hung up on it, being a good Mum isn't about BF, heck we have tons of good Mums on here who couldn't or wouldn't BF, it is about looking after yourself so you can do your best for your DDs. And that means maximising your sleep. I second Summer's suggestion of trying a bottle for a feed, your supply isn't going alter for skipping one feed and combined feeding may be the key you're looking for. Lots of love xx

JJ - to add my tuppenceworth. It is absolutely OK and perfectly normal (IME) to be angry with DD and to feel trapped and frustrated at being the only source of comfort. This drove me nuts with DD - she was very screamy and like you say only boob worked, so even though DH was willing, nothing else would do. And of course when you are tired, it all feels a 1000 times worse. You've had good practical advice. Try stuff, if it doesn't work move on - its def a case of whatever works at these kind of times. All else I'd say is don't worry about these early months somehow defining your relationship with DD2 or thinking its really about her and what she is like as a person (rather than what she needs right now). Things will change so many times over.

Can I canvass my own little AIBU? We're going away next week, supposedly with my sis, her DH and her 9 month old DD. She rang me this evening to say DD has been unwell, sleeping badly and they don't think they will come (bad cold or similar, nothing more serious). Obviously I am disappointed and also I think my DCs will be - they are v excited about going away with their cuz and my sis who they adore. But I am also kind of annoyed, as it all seems a bit PFB, especially as its a few days till Sat. I know she is a bit at the end of her tether (they have just moved house) and I feel bad posting this after JJ's post. Am I being terribly unfair?

PS - LadyT it was JG I was talking about. PD - funny you should have met the bearded one's son as well!

Great post Zule. I wanted to 'like' that one like on FB
Cheers to the period lady [wooohoooo]

Oh JJ just saw this you have had the usual briliant advice from the wonderful girls on here. Want to send you lots of love. I remember the 3hr thing but I didn't have the screamy thing. You are coping amazingly well.

Vvvv quickly -

1. You are NOT being unreasonable, Invis. It's only Tuesday today. Surely she will be over it in a couple of days? Could you talk her round? Could there be more to it?
2. Yes, Rubes. Big phewies all round
3. Well said ZJ

Must go to bed now. Lightbulb: maybe feeling grumpy and tired the last few days was PMT! I am so thick sometimes.

Arti - will be looking for your Obama post!

Beans - randomly harking back to several pages ago, but DCs loveSmall Potatoes (and were pretty keen on third and bird too). Suits me as it beats Barney which I cant abide - really regretting that gift horse now...

Thanks LadyT - good to know I am not totally loopy. We did leave it that she will reconsider and let me know on Friday. I think the more to it are just that i) she has a lot on her plate, with work, house move (major refurb job trying to play the property market) and non-sleeping babe; and ii) she is generally a bit PFB, which is not my style at all and I know I need to bite my tongue!

Glad no clackerdom at your end (at least in your situation)!

JJ Just to say send you some love and virtual hugs. It sounds incredibly difficult and I hope some of these w.ise suggestions help.

Is your dd on vitamins with her having been premature?.my dd gets more windy and uncomfortable after hers. Just a thought.

Lovely JJ. Honestly i don't know how you've done it. Lots of brilliant advice here. I wouldn't even worry about whether you are making a decision about one night or many - you just need to get some rest, and at 3 months your DD2 will be ok without being fed for more than 3 hours. Whatever it takes - bottle/ dummy/someone else walking her round/driving her you have to find a way of getting a proper stretch of sleep. Dummies rock IME - you have to encourage them to take them to start off (hold it in her mouth to suck on) but at this stage, when you have BF established I don't see what harm it could do, esp as it sounds like she is looking for comfort from sucking. But that might not be something you want to do. Just be kind to yourself. And natural to feel angry and at end of tether when you are so past it.

Wish we were all nearer. And come and rant at us - we've all done it and would rather hear from you than not at all. Take care - and lots of love

Good morning lovely ladies!

JJ, gosh I read your posts and had horrid flashes back to when DS was a baby, 3 hours sleep was a regular occurance here, oh and yes we drove him at night. It is awful, I don't think anything can be as soul destroying as sleep deprevation. I have no real advice either I'm afraid...would a dummy passify here instead of boob? Ear-plugs helped me block out DS in the end but he was much older than E.

Asparagi/Arti, give Obama a kiss from me. So exciting, will Michelle be with him. Been fasinated by her recently, she seems lovely and quite stylish!

Beans, I pay about a £100 less for my contact lenses than you. I get them from Specsavers, and I have the daily disposable ones (because I'm too lazy to clean them) which works out a little more expensive than the other ones too.

Ladyt, that sweetbread tale was truly awful. Vile. Oh and thanks for asking the teeth get fixed on Saturday. My dentist has a ridiculous schedule, so my appointmant is at 7.50am!! It was the only time he could fit me in.

Trudy great news on the all clear and getting the other thing sorted out. Sounds like you have an excellent GP. How's DD getting on with her laminated lists/routines? That actually sounds like a good idea we could do with some here I think.

Question for you all. DS has recently developed a fear of swimming. When I say fear I mean he grips me round the neck, I can feel him trembling and he shrieks "I scared mummy I scared" very loudly. This is just when we are at the swimming pool, he's fine in the bath. Thing is he used to love going swimming, was jumping in, head under, giggling the works. Now its like he has never been near water in his life! We did have a spell over the winter when we stopped going, but the past few weeks we've been he has been thoroughly miserable. Well I'm taking him again this morning but I do wonder if I'm doing him more harm than good

JJ how was last night? I had a very similar experience with DS but have a fantastic support network IRL (resident then-15 yo SD earnt my undying gratitude for sheer hours spent holding the baby) which helped, but I still had anxiety attacks and generally was far from my normal self. I dread to think how I would have managed without all that support and with a toddler as well. Tbh, those first months are a big reason why I don't want any more children, quite seriously I think another would send me over the edge never to reappear. I felt anger, I didn't bond for the first few weeks and I grew to hate BF too. Only one thing helped a bit psychologically, and that was to view the first three months as the final trimester, just with the baby on the outside. That made a lot of sense to me and I 'forgave' (isn't that awful?) M his terrible screaminess and waking. It will pass, but that's not much consolation on next-to-no sleep. I wish I had the answer - do we do ((hugs)) on MN or have I just committed a faux pas?

Rubes The hypnotherapy was so simple and I imagine it helped that I was very keen it worked. It was 10+ years ago now so I don't remember all the details, but the bits I do remember involved visualising me physically getting the better of the fear: imagining it's a sheet of paper and scrunching it up (very satisfying ]grin]), imagining stamping on the fear, imagining being in a room with my fears written on Post-Its all over the wall and ripping them off one by one. It doesn't sound much but when one is 'under' it obviously works. When I had my first blood test when pg with DD I more or less hid in DH's fleece and just stuck an arm out but I went through with it, which is more than I'd managed to do with years. They got easier, and by the time DD was a day or two old (we stayed in for four nights) I was just sticking my arm out for them and barely noticing. What's gone is the fear, and that was worse than the pain. The blood test I had last week was more painful than usual but I can live with that, it was just lovely not to have worrying about it and wondering if I could actually go through with it. It took three sessions to sort me out.

Hope the camping trip goes ahead. Your friend sounds snowed under and I can imagine camping not being top of her list, especially in the high winds we've been having, but no doubt one of those things you enjoy when you get there. I'm not a natural camper but have been dragged along a few times

DS has slept through for three nights now!! He had a bad dream and woke up very scared about 10.30 last night but that doesn't count. The difference is amazing as he hasn't slept through reliably since last September, and for the last week I wasn't getting more than three hours at a time either. Long may it continue...

What's everyone up to today? Glamorous food shopping for us today then off to a friend's. Today is day 2 of DD's Life According to the Laminated Sheet of Organisation, and apart from the homework blip yesterday it's working well. Just need to print off and laminate mine now so that I can be places on time - so much for being "supremely organised" - pride before a fall if ever I knew it!

I seemed to have missed a whole page of posts!

Invis, your sis seems terribly PFB, so no YANBU at all. Surely she will change her mind, the weekend is still a good way off and children recover so quickly ime.

Oh and rubes I'd had chinese when I had my funny turn and blacked out, I'm refusing to eat it ever again (although I probably will). How odd, hope you get to the bottom of it.

Deids X-posted. I think one reason the sheet is working out is because DD can look for herself and methodically work through it. It worked a dream after school yesterday when she had to get her belongings together for Brownies - usually there's a last-minute panic with me getting very het up and grumpy. Now that I've discovered that mini Post-Its fit perfectly onto the columns there'll be no stopping me, mwahaha! Glad to hear the teeth are being fixed, even if it is the crack of dawn. We've just got onto the list of a doctor five mins away instead of having to trek into Hereford every time and I'm stupidly pleased about it. Must. Get. Out. More.

Just popping on to add my support to JJ. There is some great advice here. I would underline the point that anger now will not shape your future relationship with DD2. I found my DD2 so much harder and it did take longer for a deep bond to develop but that seems the dim and distant past now and I love her to bits. Could your dad come and stay for a bit? Or could you pay for a maternity nurse or nanny to help you for a few weeks while you rest and recuperate. If that was financially possible I would highly recommend it.

On my way to Obama day. Soooo excited. Shame DD2 chose this morning to give me a big red welt of a scratch down my neck. Pretty.

Happy Obama day Arti! Am intrigued to hear what Mrs O is like. Loved her dress for the state thing last night.

JJ hope you had a better night.