December 2008: because i unwittingly finished the old thread

[waitinggirl]

oops. sorry. didn't realise i was post 1000. hope people find this...

ooh ooh LadyT has reminded me - I have brilliant recipe for stuffing ZJ - it's in Nigella's Feast her gingerbread stuffing I also made one with sweet potatoes that was lovely. Will try and remember where that one was from. Think it was thanksgiving recipe.

Spot and Veggie (and Rubes' Dd) hope better news on coughs and colds. Miserable time of year. Spot I can't remember if you had T's allergies checked - sorry. My only thought was that I pretty much had perpetual cough as a child until they worked out I was allergic to a whole host of random things.

Was there suggestion of doing meet up at winterw? Would be well up for if so. Am watching x-factor. I totally heart cher. although i think she looks like she could do with a pie or two.

Would welcome any recommendations for books - and have unhelpfully broad taste - so whatever really. Especially as I'm getting more conservative about what I'll pick up. More wine I think.

Evening all, DP has retreated to bed in disgust after being forced to watch X factor and then Take That so I have some time for a quick catch up.

After a hideous part of early evening, T slept fine for the rest of the night. He clearly has a virus and is v run down and sniffy but trying to contain it.

Spent most of the day in the house, apart from going to a little friend's house for a couple of hours in the late afternoon.
Can I ask your opinion on something? This little friend is the son of my best friend here (and I only have two friends in Brighton so it's quite a big deal).

He and T go to the same nursery on Mon and Fri and see each other on two or three other days of the week. Sometimes it feels like we live together! The thing is, the dynamic between the two has always been a bit tricky. T is v beta and her DS is v alpha. It's not been a majoy problem until now as T has just happily followed him around, but he's suddenly become a lot more violent and now it's really hard to be with him. He just pushes T over all the time and won't share any of his toys, and T doesn't fight back, he just cries.

It's been building up and today it was hideous, T spent most of the time in tears and I felt terrible for him, and at the same time bad for my friend who was dealing with the situation as best she could and taking her son away for time outs and telling him off, he'd come back in the room and give T a kiss, but then 10 seconds later push him over again. It was heartbreaking to see T's little face crumple, esp as I think he now anticipates it.

The thing is, he is so happy to see him, loves playing half the time, and I think this other boy is not mean, he's just a lot more naturally aggressive and physical than T and doesn't know his own strength. But it's got bad and I feel I need to constantly intervene.

I wish T would fight back and stand up for himself. I know they're still very little but I feel that T already has 'victim' written on him (he gets pushed around by other kids at playgroups too) but that could judt be my projection as I was bullied a lot as a child.

Sorry that was a bit long. But anyway, if any of you had any wisdom or suggestions I'd love to hear them as I wonder if we should just not see them a bit, but I don't know if that's actually addressing the problem or teachign either of them anything about how to deal with conflict, sharing etc.

Sorry, that was a bit of an essay

Urbane I suggested to a GP that we could maybe look into allergies but they totally rejected the idea and I haven't pressed it, but maybe should ask again..
Sorry your DH has been less than supportive. Even if he doesn't know how to deal with it, it doesn't change how you feel about his reaction. Glad you're looking after yourself though. On the book rec, interesting that LadyT mentioned it, but I absolutely loved Any Human Heart by William Boyd and would thoroughly recommend it. Really compelling and moving.

On the DVD front we're watching a box set of Our Friends in the North. Never watched it first time round and it's fab!

Veg how is DS2? Have you made it out for your eve? Hope so.

Sorry can't go back a page and catch up on any more as I'll lose this post but will do better tomorrow. Really tred now so I htink I'll sack off Rob, Gaz et al. and go to bed. Night folks.

Just a quickie till X-factor finished (had to pause as Mum called)

Trace, hope you are feeling better this evening.... my thoughts are it's hormonal, and I hope it will settle down when your cycle does etc. I'm a total cow when hormones are messing. I'm sure I can say something dumb or silly or long winded to cheer you up
Since Period returned I'm having it every 3 weeks and also on the pill and bleeding at all the wrong times and way too often. brought up the coil convo with dh. Altho he barely had an opinion, he said it can poke the boy parts during the adult business he's heard

I've just watched Matt's performance and I HEART MATT!!! If he doesn't win, I'll eat dd's beret. I may even vote this year standing O from Danni and the whole time she's probably thinking Good God he can sing so much better than me!
Right, I'm back to it..... Deids hope you are ok?

Urbane so nice to 'see' more of you....

lady when are we spa-ing and WW-ing?

Spot have only skimmed but back later..... since you're off to bed I'll read again when I'm focused as i doubt you'll be back on till morn.

Urbane I heart Cher too! Looking way less skanky tonight.
I reckon it's her and Matt in the last 2

Evening

I am just coming to the end of a lovely Saturday night alone. DH and I were meant to be in a party on the other side of town, but after a fun afternoon at a friend's house, where we indulged in more than the planned amount of cheerfulness, I just could not be bothered with the journey. So DH took himself off and I got to enjoy X Factor on my own while painting my toe nails. I feel thoroughly relaxed now .

Trace - I am so sorry you are feeling wobbly. Could it be the pill? Have you been on the pill before? The reason I ask is that the pill has a terrible impact on my mental health. Every time I go on it I get very anxious and unhappy. As a result I now avoid all hormonal contraception. Hopefully its not the same for you and as Urbane said this is just a normal reaction to the end of your CPN treatment. Maybe mention it to your GP or your psych. Are you still doing the CBT?

Spot - I am not sure what to suggest about T and his little friend. Some kids just go through the violent stage and there seems to be very little you can do about it. All I can say is (a) don't let it stop you hanging out with your friend and (b) don't start thinking this is a sign of T's future social interactions. Just be proud that your little boy has such a gentle, non-violent personality.

Urbane - Sorry that your DH isn't coming-up trumps this week. But good on your DS for making you laugh! I loved his comment. Re books: I have just started Johnthan Franzen's new novel 'Freedom'. Did you read The Corrections? That was his first novel and I loved it. This one is taking longer to grab me but I am enjoying it nonetheless. Over the summer I read 'The American Wife' by Curtis Sittenfield (I think!). It was recommended by someone on this thread (LadyT?) and is a fictional autobiography of Laura Bush. I would recommend that too.

Zoe - I wish I could help on the stuffing front but I have never made anything like that. I love cooking but I have never cooked christmas dinner . I will happily talk christmas decorations though. Tonight I have been pondering buying a nativity scene for the DDs. Last year I made a marzipan nativity which I was uber proud of. DD1 also made one featuring a very long christmas worm and two snowmen . I also love making gingerbread houses at christmas and have already made a template for this year's design! I really love christmas...

I had a lovely moment with DD1 last night. I have been feeling bad about how little I see the DDs Mon - Thurs and last night DD1 asked if I was going to work today. I explained I wasn't and she said that was good. So I asked her whether she was sad that I worked so much. I expected her to either ignore the question or say she wanted me to stay home. Instead she put her hand on my shoulder and said "Mummy, what you have got to learn is that I am fine. As long as I have DD2 to play with and I am with you, or Daddy, or Shelley (her nanny), then I will always be OK". She looked so adult as she said it and I was rather taken aback that she clearly knows I feel guilty about leaving her. She is growing up so fast! How can she have figured that out by four?

I heart Rebecca too.....
Right, Strictly in a minute.

Lady how was the curry? And why were you sitting outside?

Spot, just had another read of your post. DS is just like your DS. He was always getting pushed around by his little friend who is a month older, and a couple of times at toddler group. For the first time last week I saw him stand up for himself so I was a little relieved. I bet you are worrying more than you ought to because you have raging hormones involved. Eek at 8.5 months pregnant I was in tears (full on inconsolable ones) at Tesco and fled the store without realising I hadn't paid due to a tantrum of ds's. I bet anything T will change overnight. DS is still the more passive of any child, but if he really wants something (like the pink toy pram and baby at toddler group) he will now stand up for himself. The thing is, he still never gets pushy or phyisical which I'm so glad about. T will change I'm sure of it and it will happen over night, but perhaps until then maybe, just don't see them as often if it upsets you. Give yourself a break, pregnancy is hard, really hard without having to throw anything else in the mix. My ds is so very gentle and you are welcome anytime to come and play. You are at a very delicate stage with your pregnancy and hormones etc, so don't subject yourself to anything that may upset you. I bet if you weren't pregnant you wouldn't feel so sad about it. Maybe if you do see them from time to time you could just intervene and make sure both kids know what's right and wrong but I think if you can have a little break while you are heavily pregnant it might be easier, or perhaps just meet up with them for a coffee or something where there are not as many toys involved and just have a snack etc. and keep it breif.
I don't know, I'm not great at this stuff but I do know that I keep seeing changes in ds overnight so both of your DS's will be behaving differently before you know it. I hope you feel much better in the morning.
Rambling again

Oh and ds went upstairs tonight and as I was filling his bath he went out of the room, shut the bathroom door and then knocked and waited, and knocked again and waited until I answered and let him in, then just giggled! he must have seen this door knocking thing on TV

Spot - I totally feel your pain, and have used EXACTLY the same words as you about "victim" being tattooed on DD1's forehead when she gets pushed around by other children. She also watches to see their reactions, then laughs if they do only. I am going to follow Avo's advice and be proud of how gentle she is. It is hard, though. And I agree with you on maybe it being our perception, as I was bullied as well!

Just thought I would stand united with you anyway! Must go as Grand Prix on and am quite enjoying it!

xx

Spot I can't post much as itouch about to run out of battery. But we had the same problem with our close friends in derby who where the only people we knew when we first moved there. Ds1 did genuinely love their ds but he was continuously hit by him. We always assumed he would grow out of it but never did. He got really violent and eventually as ds1 was able to speak and express himself he started saying things like 'why does (hittychild) hit me, I thought he liked me" it got really hard and was made worse because the boys dad saw it as a survival of the fittest thing whereas his kid was tough and ours wasn't. Whereas sadly it became quite obvious that his son hit more the stronger and more able our ds1 got. For instance if they were racing each other and ds1 won their son would then become agressive. It really was more out of frustration for the poor boy I think.

It did effect our friendship as they felt it was nothing and we found it a big deal as it was our child suffering.

I'm gonna post just in case batteries dies but will write more.

Spot I think Rubes' advice about being even more sensitive to these things in late pg is spot on. And Avo is right that these things can be phases, and you should be proud that T isn't a brute. DS never did pushing or hitting very much, and it never bothered me at all - in fact to my shame I was rather smug about it and thought less of other kids which is equally unfair. I always retreat to this, but I always think all I can do is hope that my DCs feel how much we love them in their bones. So even if world outside is sometimes a bit grim they always have that. I know it's what my parents gave me, and I know how much of a difference it's made to me and my siblings. There's always going to be bullies, and bigger kids, and more aggressive people. I steer away from them now as much as I did as a kid.

And that is not at all to say that your friend's DS is going to be a bully. I think this age is hard when they can't communicate - it's much better later when they can start to say stuff properly and get a sense of fairness and how to play together. And they're going to scrap then anyway. DD is much more of a brute - would be worse if she was a boy I think. DS let a bigger boy take his tractor in the park the other day and when he was upset about him not getting it back DD marched over and grabbed it while giving the other boy a v fierce look. so may have reverse problem there. In fact in our house she is the one who is always pushing and shoving, and we have to stop her from picking on DS. Am of Avo's stories of blissful sibling relationship. We're not there yet.

Thanks for book recommendations - am going to dig out the william boyd and have ordered the american wife.

Avo I love the story of your DD1. That's quite a thing to have taken on - what a perceptive child. 'what you have to learn' . We should try and fix coffee before christmas - will email you from work. I'm a sucker for the P of W in it's christmas glory (and relatives don't think it's christmas without HOC mints...).

Keen on christmas decoration chat too. in fact obsessed. M&S have some lovely silver glass turtle doves which I bought a couple of (of course). And am looking forward to going back to Liberty Christmas shop. I always get some ludicrous thing each year. Have to go back to Liberty to return stupid tapestry set. Now am not pg seems completely ridiculous purchase. Amazing what hormones do to you.

I think the biggest thing that upset me was our friends attitude. One time after we had moved here she was telling me how her son was having trouble at school and had tried to make friends with some other boys and one had hit him. She said "oh it was so difficult for him to handle as obviously it is quite demorilising for a child to be hit by his peers". She said it as if I had never experienced something like this and like the whole last 18 months of her son hitting mine had never happened. I was so shocked I couldn't even say anything I think the look on my face said it all.

Anyway as ds1 started to be able to express himself I encouraged him to tell the boy himself he didn't like being hit and that friends didn't hit each other. It didn't stop him hitting and the boy often laughed at this but it did give ds1 a little boost to be able to speak up for himself. We also talked about how he felt about being hit. A little hippy touchy feely I know but I do feel it helped him and I would also say how I felt about it.

Anyway I can honestly say now, I think ds1 is almost better for it. A boy pushed him school and ds1 just told him he didn't like it and ignored him. That boy is now his friend and decidedly non pushy with ds1 whereas he does push some other kids. Ds1 is a confident boy and he likes swords fights and play fighting but he is def not a violent child and like his dad is quite calm and peaceful. I think right now the best you can do is comfort ds and maybe even at the time of the hit to the boy, "don't do that t doesn't like it"

Oh also ds2 doesn't mind having a shove and push but we have jumped on it and threaten the backroom (it's their playroom but it's our version of the naughty step) and he stops and so far hasn't been much into hitting anyone else. But if he does I will do my best to punish him and make a big deal of comforting the other child as I heard this helps. Frustration with communication has a lot to do with it but ds1's friend is still hitting at 5 so I think it is a lot to do with how his parents handled it.

Sorry I have gone on but it's a subject close to my heart. I would def say in an effort to save your friendship I would suggest talking to your friend now about how you should both deal with this. Tell her openly how you feel about your fears for t being a victim so she understands where your coming from and doesn't think your having a go at her. In the end though you have to do what is good for t's feelings not her's.

My itouch is dying, it won't do capitols except at the start of the sentence.

Last night was great except I had to come home at 10.30 cos ds2 woke up in snotsville.

Vagola we do that - the making a fuss of the other child thing. In fact slightly counter-productive as DS sometimes goes and gets in her way in order to be pushed and then demand a big squishy cuddle. He's very affectionate

Has prodded me to get back onto DD though - she's a bit rough with us sometimes too. Have spent pretty much entire day in bed and feeling much better. Have to accept that my DH whilst pretty much perfect in every way is never very good at this type of stuff.

X-factor tonight and then going to try out that barrister thing. Rebecca is brilliant Rubes - she's going to get a recording contract for sure - whatever happens in competition. Although I would rather stab self in eye than listen to that sort of stuff normally.

I would push on allergies spot - even if it just means you feel like you're doing something. and you never know. Hope T has had a better day.

Deidre have been thinking of you this weekend. Hope you're ok.

Hello Urbs sorry I didn't see you there amongst my rambling. Glad you got the day in bed, despite the reason. Our DS's are quite similar and in fact our number 2s seem very similar. I'm sure you'll be very busy leading up to Christmas but if you've got anytime a quicky Greenwich meet up would be nice to get them together. Do you ever go to mudchute farm?

Rubes I've been having weird frequent periods too.

Trace, I'm probably wrong but I've been feeling a bit down lately, like extremes PMT. I've not been thinking bad things of people but have been feeling that no one likes me, its ok I know its not true...hopefully, I recognise it as a PMT feeling. But its a bit more extreme lately and I'm really teary, and have been getting migraines, I think because I'm trying to suppress the teariness. I've been putting it down to the weather and am taking vit D and trying to get out as much as possible. I realise this prob isn't what it is with you but they do say mental health issue worsen at this time of year. I think either way you need to bring it up with your GP. Also please keep us updated with how your feeling, you describe your feelings so well it has to be helpful to write it...and it somehow makes me, for one, feel like Im helping you.

Thank you so much guys for your kind and considered responses - you're such a huge support I honestly don't know what I'd do without you. You're probably right that hormones and my own history are playing a big part, but I'll still feel better armed with a strategy - which is for tomorrow (they'll be coming to play after nursery) to get a lot more involved with their play and preempt any trouble. We normally have a cuppa and leave them to it but I think we should do something a lot more structured tomorrow. THen I think I'll suggest we play on neutral territory for a bit, even if we have to throw some money at the problem (soft play, etc). I feel ok talking to her about it and just want to feel that I'm sticking up for him. And you're also right I don't think that her DS is a bully (and she's cut up about his behaviour, she's a psycotherapist!) - he just doesn't know his own strength and if T responded in kind it would just look like normal toddler rough and tumble.

BEans it's interesting that you're in a similar situation and also had a bad time yourself. I wonder if it's somehow genetic or if we're just more sensitive to it and quicker to get upset?

Even though T is snot monster today he's been on good form, he really is a lovely boy and I am glad he's a gentle soul. Can completely imagine him being beaten up by DS2 though and he's not even born! He's been beating me up from the inside for months now...

Glad you're feeling a bit more chipper, Urbane - has your BF been able to support you even if DH has struggled?

Re- X Factor, I like Matt despite myself (he's so obvious but does have a stunning voice). DP reckons he reminds him of a captain of a really low league football team. Bit of a potato but technique makes up for it and he's good at cheering on the younger lads. Katie Weasel to go tonight!

Sorry you had to cut your night short, Vag but glad you had a nice time beforehand.

Rubes that is so cute about your super polite DS. I wouldn't worry about where it comes from, just enjoy his loveliness

Avo I am dead impressed about your Christmas domestic goddessery. I LOVE gingerbread houses. How long did it take to make - and do you have a link to a recipe at all?
And your DD is amazing, what an insightful and emotionally intelligent thing to say!

Vag reminds me there with the X-post - sorry I neglected to acknowledge your post, Trace I am very self absorbed at the moment .
I can only echo what others have said about hormones and SAD but you know yourself - is there an option of getting back on the CPN's caseload if you feel you're not coping?
Please keep posting about it, esp if it helps you make some sense of your feeling...

I LOVE TAKE THAT!!!

Right I'm back to non-rambling Rubes. Bullet points it is

*Hiya Spot, glad you sound a little better. Let us know how tomorrow goes.
*Vag, I agree. This time of year requires a lot of strategy to avoid getting depressed here too. Really hard coming from some of the best weather in the world isn't it. I feel a million times better now I've sorted out my next few months travel plans and Christmas.
*Urbs I love seeing more of you these days
*Deids, I really hope you are ok.
*Jam did you get home in time for the XFactor?

*DS's polite knocking on bedroom door ended thismorning when he barged in, but at least had the decency to wait until 7am
He has been opening and shutting every other door in the house though and knocking etc

• he has conjunctivitis - not nice.
• went to pub this arvy for lunch for mil b'day. Lovely, but ds not keen on doing anything except walking around and around so they took it in turns as they seemed to want to and who am I to spoil their fun

*Lovely X-factor result

not keen on Take That but love Westlife

Rubes I'm liking being around too
And I've just had to explain to DH why I was laughing when I saw your bullet point list. Nice work. Admirably brief.

Vagola I would love love to see you and your lovely boys. When are you here? We haven't been to mudchute for ages (I am summer mudchuter) but would love to go. Just say when. I am usually off work on a Friday and thurs am but could mess about with days if that didn't suit. DS has school 12:45-15:15.

Right. To bed I think. LadyT I liked that garrow thing but kept losing concentration and getting a bit lost (getting lost in sunday night tv - a new intellectual low).

Night all. And thanks again for being there when I needed you. Such a wondrous thing

Hope you had a restful night Urbane :). We had a stimulating evening of tv viewing - James May and obesity surgery (not the same prog). I like seeing people make rockets out of toilet paper tubes.

Spot: strategy sounds good. I'm all for leaving them to get on with it, but when the boys are bickering it's much easier when I'm there to act as a buffer.

Vag and Rubes: sorry you're suffering with the weather. It's a tricky time of year. But soon it will be Christmas and we have our first 2 yo on the thread this month!

Avo: am also up for gingerbread house recipes. And I am going to try to make a proper cake this year. Have hot as far as buying some brandy.

Eugh, T up all night (really properly this time) and then for the day at 6. Can't work out if it's earache, only thing I can think of really but I'd have thought he'd have slept at least longer than a 2 hour stretch.
Actually I think he may have bad sinuses so I guess another trip to the doc is in order this week. Just can't face yet more antibiotics, surely two times in a month already is enough?
Eugh. Got a midwife appt this morning. DP has decided he needed sleep more than me so hag gone back to bed and put his earplugs in. Couldn't be arsed to have a competitive sleep deprivation argument but will engage in one later I'm sure...

I'd be tempted to steal the duvet and the earplugs. Sorry you've had a from night. I agree with Urbane that it might be worth pushing the allergies issue. How do they know he's not allergic to anything if they don't test?

Morning all.
Spot Last night sound rough on you and T. Seriously DP has gone back to sleep? Bucket and cold water.....

trace I'm sorry your feeling a bit low again. It could well be hormones rushing all over...how are you feeling now and how was your lunch?

I was in Boy Band heaven last night on X Factor, still can't believe Katie Weasel is in it! Did anyone watch I'm a Celeb? Although celebwas stretching it a bit far tbh.

As I've said before DS has been a bit aggressive, so I feel your pain to those who have LO's getting shoved. However, DS has now been in close proximity of other children 3 times over the weekend and was practically angelic! I on the other hand was hovering over him ready to grab him away with an angst look on my face the whole time.

My cousin had a naming ceremony yesterday for her little boy (the who was born at 28 wks). She was going to cancel it given whats happened but she didn't and it was a lovely afternoon, sat chatting about how fab Grandad was. My Nan however is lost I guess you would be after 60 years with someone. There isn't really much we can do though, she's never been the best at accepting help.

DD has her first parents evening later, will be interesting to hear what she really gets up to at school.

Hi all.
Thank you so much for the responses and care that you all show. I'll add my voice to everyone else in saying how supportive and safe this thread is. Thank you.
My posh tea was lovely - posh sandwiches and way too many cakes in a gorgeous room with comfy chairs and a roaring fire. Perfect way to spend a few hours.
I'm still struggling though TBH I think you're all right, in that hormones and perhaps the weather are playing a part. I'm just unsure as to ask for some help, or wait it out a bit. I don't want to go rushing back for help when I've only just been 'released'. I don't want to look like I want attention/ support and can't manage without it. But then again I'm quite scared by how I'm feeling. My eyes are small and puffy today from so many tears yesterday.
Anyway I'm being a but me me me here so I'll stop.
deids I'm glad your cousin went ahead with the naming service. I can't imagine what it is like for your nan at the moment without her soulmate, but I know she has family who love her very much.
urbs glad you're feeling a little better. Keep being kind to yourself - it's going to take time.
Rubs your bullet point post amused me! I'm glad you've got some holiday plans booked in to keep your spirits up. It must be hard being so far from your family.
Spot I echo the others who think allergy testing would be a good idea. I guess if you take him back and he does have an ear infection, it wold be a good chance to bring up the subject of how frequently he's getting ill. Hope all goes well with the MW today.
Right I ought to go. Got a late finish at work today so I'm going in late.
Bye for now.