Anne Widdicombe Suspicious Death

[AClassicTrenchcoat]

Suspicious death, suspected murder. Think there is a press conference soon.

If that's Southport you are referring to, the police didn't put out disinformation.

"Cardiff-born" is very obviously code for "someone not white". Well, it was to me, anyway.

It's the Devon & Cornwall constabulary. They couldn't catch a cold.

Agree. Ian Dale and Andrew Pierce were both very close friends and both gay.

Yes. It's not as if she advocated criminalising homosexuality, or killing homosexuals. She was opposed to same-sex marriage, which quite a lot of people were at one time. (And in fact, lots of religious people - in a variety of religions - still are.)

It's absolutely horrific that she's been murdered. We should all be upset and angry that an elderly woman has been killed in her own home, and frankly, if you're not, there's something wrong with you.

I am sure the Yard will send one of their finest to help out.

Shame they hadn't given the same diligence of a 17 year old kid with terrorist manuals in his bedroom and weapons ordered on Amazon as they did to the protesters who were identified and jailed within days.
Just saying........

Things Anne Widdecombe said or did

• Advocated for handcuffing heavily pregnant women
• Opposed same-sex marriage and argued there could theoretically be a “cure” for homosexuality.
• Strongly opposed abortion, calling it a “life and death” issue.
• Cost of living – Told people who couldn’t afford cheese sandwiches: “Well then you don’t do the cheese sandwich.” Despite coming from her own privilege.
• Questioned mainstream climate change science and opposed the UK’s Climate Change Act.

Being swung around a dance floor and being nice to your luvvie mates doesn’t negate these type of views. No-one should be murdered that doesn’t even need to be said. But also no-one needs to mourn the wicked as a certain musical lamented

She didn't have any children. She belonged to a generation, most of whom were brought up to believe that you didn't have children until you were married to a person of the opposite sex. It's an old-fashioned idea.

She wrote a few novels. I read one. It was about a young French woman in WW2, who had an affair with a German officer. Sorry if someone has mentioned this already.

People like @Crocsarentslippers are the embarrassement to society.

An examle of how badly our educational system has failed. Producing people who can rote learn and pass tests, but are incapable of thinking for themselves.

More importantly, producing people who are unable to reflect on their own words and behaviour, or consider whether they match the values they claim to hold.

Not being able to recognise that you worryingly enjoy harm coming to the 'enemy', and what exactly that makes you, is an intellectual and moral failing.

Oh spare me the mock grief about 'Anne'.

She wasn't a nice person and took advantage of her position to espouse those views.

I'm sorry she died in the way she did but, I want be shamed by strangers on the Internet for calling her what she was.

She didn't 'advocate' for it. It was the established practice when she took over as Prisons Minister and she accepted it, which is not quite the same thing. She clarified in the House of Commons that no woman prisoner had ever been handcuffed while in active labour. Quite an interesting discussion, actually. https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1996/jan/09/holloway-prison

I don’t doubt that people who are against e.g. abortion on religious grounds are genuinely motivated by faith. Pope Leo is very popular among people who aren’t religious, but I assume that he follows Catholic doctrine on this matter. Is he abhorrent?

We live in a deeply moralizing age. Right now a sort of secular-progressive one.

Moralising isn’t the problem unless it tips into shutting down others views. That’s one thing AW never did.

Also your take on AW’s Catholicism only make sense if you think she deep down knew her beliefs weren’t really true. Therefore robustly proclaiming them was some sort of cruelty.

Your Christian friends who believe wholeheartedly that there is but one way to salvation, without which we are divorced from god for all eternity, and politely keep quiet about it. How is that more moral?

Oh yes I saw the iceberg, I’ve got my place in the life boat, but I felt it was more virtuous not to raise the alarm in case others thought me rude?

“Following the whole example of Jesus” involves an awful lot of moralising and condemning if you believe the source texts.

That misinformation does seem to be repeated.

I don't think AW ever said there should be 'no debate'.

It certainly does. A lie can travel halfway around the world before the truth can get its boots on. I remember the hoo-ha at the time and the initial assertion, which as I now know has been debunked, is what stuck in my mind.

But she did. She may not have introduced it, but she rigorously defended it. Including telling a ‘story’ about how a pregnant woman jumped out of a window at hospital to escape. Later shown to not be true.

Did anyone else notice the resemblance of the police officer giving the press conference to our beloved actor Mark Strong?

The claim is based on a 1996 parliamentary debate, but as I posted earlier, there is a current campaign to stop women giving birth in handcuffs, so it's not as though successive labour, conservative, and then labour again governments have solved the problem.

Here is the Mirror issuing an apology to AW in 2023

https://www.mirror.co.uk/for-the-record/ann-widdecombe--apology-correction-30566217

I suppose some things just stick, regardless of whether they are accurate.

What on earth are you talking about?

There’s absolutely nothing wrong with a person expressing the views and opinions they hold. Yes, even when the almighty “Crocsarentslippers” disagrees.

Do you see how I am able to disagree with the views you are espousing? Well, I’m able to do that in the knowledge that if you were to die horrifically, I wouldn’t dream of highjacking discussion in the immediate aftermath to highlight your unpleasantness.

Also please note that whilst you kindly pointed out the errant “E” in my post, you should also feel free to take the time to review your own posts for errors.

Indeed. There’s a great closing speech of hers at the Oxford Union defending free speech.

So given that the Conservatives were out of government for the following 13 years and Labour are back in government now, why is it still a problem?

Jesus also said "judge not and you shall not be judged" and to "love thy neighbour as thyself".
I take my lead from that.

For my part I don't have an issue with people who are against things for religious reasons. However, when they are actively campaigning to eg ban abortion that feels different because it moves away from a private view to trying to impose said views on others. They have the right to do that, but should also expect strong pushback. Politicians come under a whole different level of scrutiny. There are some who make it clear that they will be keeping their religious beliefs separate to their political votes and others who say they will centre their religion. Widdicombe was definitely the latter and of course it was therefore an issue for some people.

And Muslims absolutely do get this as well. Muslims are less likely to oppose abortion than Christians by the way. It's not really as big an issue in Islam. But Muslim MPsvface "gotcha" questions on homosexuality, even if they haven't publicly stated their views before then. Which is fine because knowing how someone is likely to vote on, for example, trans rights is important before electing them. Sometimes that tips over into automatic suspicion of someone's motives/an attempt to smear their character regardless of how they say they will vote. So the accusation that some politicians are hiding their true radical beliefs on social issues until they get to power. Which is too far IMO and used to happen a lot to Catholics before we found a new religion to be the enemy of democracy.

But the other side of it, people trying to use their religions as a shield is also wrong. I think this happens in America more than the UK though.

No , you misunderstand me, or perhaps I didnt express myself clearly enough. I dont doubt that there are people who believe what they say, but I think that there's another bunch of people who are motivated by other things than simply expressing their beliefs. And I am suspicious of them. Pope Leo isnt a particularly good example because he is the head of the Catholic church. The types I am talking about play a more secular role in society but constantly invoke their Catholicism to back up what they say, and I ...and I am not claiming anyone else might think this ... but I find it disingenuous.