Nicola Sturgeon living in England

[TalkToTheHand123]

Is she claiming asylum? She must now realise what a great country England is after spending all those years trying to destroy the country. She is most welcome to pop rounds for a cuppa and a natter.

So is Nicola telling us that she wants the UK to remain one country or that she wants Scotland to be a separate country and no longer part of the UK?

Either view is perfectly valid; but it's hypocritical in the extreme to expect the best of both worlds. It's like the head of PETA spending years vociferously campaigning for people to stop eating meat and then being seen enthusiastically tucking into a beef burger. Sure, they can insist that it's not illegal to eat meat, and that lots of people choose to do so; but it still blows a huge hole in everything they've ever publicly stood for.

If Nicola had been successful in her (supposedly) passionate campaigning, her countryfolk would no longer have had the same option that she has just availed herself of: the automatic right to move to England, Wales or Northern Ireland with no restrictions, border controls or issues whatsoever.

Perfectly summarised

Yes, great summary

@AWeeCupOfTeaAndAnIndividualFruitTrifle spot on!

@AWeeCupOfTeaAndAnIndividualFruitTrifle If Nicola had been successful in her (supposedly) passionate campaigning, her countryfolk would no longer have had the same option that she has just availed herself of: the automatic right to move to England, Wales or Northern Ireland with no restrictions, border controls or issues whatsoever.

Do we know this, please? Was the independence campaign that detailed and asking for a hard border. Surely not. I had, perhaps wrongly, assumed that Nicola would have always wanted to have her cake and eat it?

She's living down south temporarily to write. It's not a permanent move.

The UK is not a country, it is a union of countries, what Theresa May termed a 'precious union'.

I expect if the Scottish people had voted for independence a common travel area would have been agreed in any case.

In any case, whilst the union continues, no reason why someone born in Scotland cannot live in England or Wales or Northern Ireland if they wish. Of much more concern is her allegedly knowing nothing about her former husband's criminal activities.

Yes, I understand that and she is entirely free to do so. Does anyone know the answer to my question, please?

I could give you it but won't due entirely to your last sentence in your post.

The sentence that starts: I had, perhaps wrongly, assumed ....

I have allowed for being wrong ... and it may sound a bit sarcastic. So I'm sorry and I do want to know, please.

No. We didn't want a hard border but were threatened with it by the UK govt. Half my family live in England. Nicola's granny was English. Independence was never about the "English", it was about the Scottish.

We have more that unites us than divides us and that would still be true if we governed our own affairs.

Look at Ireland. An independent country but who doesn't love them? Their writers etc. Their whole personality.

If Scottish people want Indy, Welsh people want Indy and NI people want Indy, then it's not because no one likes the English.

It's because they want to run their own affairs. What's wrong with that? We'll still be pals.

Lots of us do. I’ve lived in England now almost 3/4 of my life, after being born and growing up in Scotland. Did my DNA and found my Scottish heritage not to be as much as I had expected. Just over 60%. A bit I assumed would be Irish, from a grandmother born in Dublin, whose father was also from Dublin, turned out to be English. There was Irish on the side I thought was just Scots, and a smattering of Scandinavian. I think very few of us in the UK will turn out to be 100% one ethnicity.

OK thanks. I'm remembering a bit more now, it was 12 years ago, about the border. Wasn't this to do with the EU - even though we hadn't had that referendum yet. I remember Nicola saying they would rejoin if Scotland got independence but this must have been after we left?

So is the USA not a country either, but just a union of 50 separate states?

It's because they want to run their own affairs. What's wrong with that? We'll still be pals.

So the exact same reason that most people voted for Brexit, then?

I have a lot of friends who are vehement supporters of SNP and independence, but they live all over the world. Their view is skewed by a very nostalgic memory of what they remember the Country to have been 30 years ago, and what they experience for the couple of weeks a year they visit. I have debated the Indy issue with them dozens of times and what they fail to understand is just how badly run our country is and what a failure SNP have been. They take the “it’s doing better than England” view when I point out things like our woeful NHS waiting lists and failing education system. Then they insist Scotland could do more if they were independent. I’m not sure how they think we could do more with less money.

It was during the referendum (INDY). The UK one was after the Indy one and we voted remain. We knew it was coming though so it was mentioned. We had to leave anyway. Even though we wanted to stay in.

It wasn’t a threat. It was pointing out the reality of the situation. There would have to be a hard border Even the SNP admit there would be a hard border. https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/john-swinney-admits-hard-border-36032850.amp

I have another question, please. So presumably all these people - celebrities and your friends - do not get a vote. Because, and I didn't want to nitpick some of the posts, but it is nothing to do with being Scottish and everything to do with where you are registered to vote.

What happens with second home owners? Did you have to live in an area for a certain time continuously with the referendum?

The UK is a country.

Absolutely not. We all LIVE on the British Isles. We are all British. It can't be compared with Brexit. We're not all German.The point is that Scotland voted remain. But we weren't allowed to.

Have any of the states wanted to leave?

But that’s the whole point. We can’t exit the union and expect to get everything we want from it. There will have to be a deal done with people who don’t want us to leave. It isn’t a “threat” to have a hard border, it is the reality of two nations living next door to each other being able to control who comes into their country. If the Scottish immigration system was to allow pretty much anyone in, is it hard to understand why England would want some control?

Things like the currency is a particular issue. Will we have our own or will we be in a currency union with England? That means our economy being reliant on a strong GBP. How is that good for us? Do we expect England just to let us keep the same currency as them?

It took SNP 8 years and £685 million to implement 11 benefits, in a situation where UK Gov was collaborating with them to do it. Can you imagine the issues with setting up an entire civil system with and English government who has no interest in collaboration?

You cannot have a good divorce in an acrimonious split. The reality is, a lot of people will be a lot worse off for at least a generation. If we succeed there is no metric which says we will do any better than rUK. Is it really worth going through the unavoidable pain for no real gain?

Approximately 20% of Americans support their state seceding from the US. States like California, who contribute more than they receive have a very strong secession movement.

The American civil war was based on exactly that. Foolish to think it will never raise its head again.

Re your last paragraph. You can, if you ensure it's not acrimonious. I do believe it will be worth it, you don't.

I respect your opinion, though I disagree with it.

The main demographic who want Indy in Scotland are young people.

I don't think I'll see it but will vote yes if we ever get the chance again. And we should, because it's democracy.

If the young people suddenly change their minds and want to stay in the UK, then I won't vote no, I just won't vote.

But I will leave it up to the people who will have have to live here long after me and make it work.

Hopefully, if we get another referendum, people won't fall out about it. I have never fallen out with my friends and family who voted no. There was no need for it. I still don't understand why people did tbh!