Is Matt Goodwin correct about this?

[molanasulfi]

Is professor Matthew Goodwin right that that middle-class leftists are so angry at Brexit, because it is the first time they have lost a major thing and it infuriates then to see the working class get one over on them?

Oh this is the Youtube rabbit hole you went down!

OP, try to deal with people as individuals, instead of avatars of a class or ideology.

It's true that humans are social and there are patterns in our behaviour, but if you only look at patterns and never at people, you will really lose a lot of important details about the world you're really living in.

Everyone, even those you disagree with, is as complex and meaningful as you are. Really! When you collapse their humanity into these broad categories you will find them scary. Faceless and implacable enemies are really scary! But Linda on the corner, she's a person, right? And Mo - he's very worried about feeding ducks the correct type of seed and he will bore you on that if you just ask him. And Shabana and Terry - they are both so good at the crossword and they will tell you what 16D is if you sit with them at lunch.

Who is Matthew Goodwin ?

No.
(whoever he is).

First time the left have lost a major thing? How long was Thatcher in power, remind me?

Depends who is counted as a ‘middle class leftist’, I think I can picture the people given this label, and it’s probably more accurate to describe them as centrists for a start who would be rejected by the left. Left wing people are on the side of the working class, and see Brexit as an example of the working class being screwed over not getting one over on ‘us’. It was a victory for elites who could benefit from that situation as far as I can see, and who pushed to make it happen. In any case, leftists are very used to losing politically so I don’t see the argument about losing something for the first time applying either.

Perhaps this overton window shift that has right-of-centre people who want to maintain the status quo described as leftists is the misdirection here though.

"Left wing people are on the side of the working class, "

What does that make Labour then?

He was the Reform candidate in the recent by-election.

Did you hear there was a by election in Gorton and Denton recently? Was all over the news.

What do you think, OP? Do you agree with him?
Can you think of any other reasons why propyl might be so angry about Brexit?

Libel is still a thing by the way. Even if MN gives the appearance of being anonymous.

No, because Brexit fucked over working class people way more.
As a young person I could go to Italy and work as a hairdresser, or Spain and work in a bar. My kids can’t.
Middle class young people are more likely to get study abroad opportunities, work visas etc.
Middle class older people are more likely to have fat pensions and investments which allow them to retire in the EU.
Following Brexit Boris opened the doors to a huge influx of people from outside of Europe which has had a profound effect on working class communities predominantly.
So, no.

TBF before Brexit the working class were stuffed by freedom of movement. Which the EU refused to make allowances for but now seem to be able to. Tbe EU was admittedly good for the middle classes and for big business.

Obviously Boris was wrong too.

What I don’t understand are the people on here saying “Who is Matt Goodwin?” Why are they proud of being ignorant? And they must be proud of their ignorance, or they wouldn’t display it-they’d just google….

Can you explain how the ‘working class’ has benefited from Brexit?

Of course he’s wrong. He was born in 1981 so he grew up when Thatcher was PM. The Tories have been in power for many more years than Labour. He’s 44 and there has only been a Labour government for 13 years of his life. Lefties are used to losing.

I mistrust assessments of other people’s opinions that are based on disparaging them. “Middle class” is such a lazy description and generalisation. Only marginally better than “the middle classes”. He should remember that it’s the middle class that holds the ends together. The rich get richer, the poor get poorer and the middle class pays for it all.

But he’s a Reform party member so that’s his particular bias.

It hasn't. But it had a bad time when we were in the EU too. The deprivation in thr North didn't just start in 2016.

Unfortunately we have had a succession of poor governments since then, which I'm sure you will agree with. Culminating with the worst yet. Getting close to tbe EU (with slower growth than us) won't solve the issues.

I find it easier to assume that Twat Goodwin is wrong ab initio, and work from there.

I think his point is (as usual) aimed at causing a class division that aligns the working class with the upper class so the upper classes can continue to exploit and fag them out as is their need throughout history- as they create no value themselves, simply cream off the labour of the working class, they need them compliant and boot licking.

who campaigned for Brexit?

boris johnson
nigel farage
micheal gove

working class?!

does that look like the working class getting one over the middle class to you?

Nobody is accusing Labour of being left wing. But it would help if you give your opinion rather than treat this thread as a tutorial

The working class have been shafted by Brexit, but (overall) it was the working class who voted for Brexit. People have always perceived the working as being left wing, but that isn't the case anymore. It's the working class who (overall) have more in common with the views of Tommy Robinson/Nigel Farage/any right wing agitator. And yes many Labour voting intellectuals find this unbelievable.
Keir Starmer, Wes Streeting, Andy Burnham, Sarah Sultana do not represent the views of the working class. And quite frankly, they don't want to as they find it all so unpalatable.

OP this is the second bonkers Brexit thread I’ve seen of yours - and as PP pointed out - Thatcher. Also can I add, Major, Cameron, May, Johnson.

The left have lost more elections than won in the post WWII era.

Blair and Starmer are only two of eight currently living people who have held the position of PM who won a general election from a left of centre position.

Now, OP as his premise that he’s the only thing they’ve lost is clearly not true, why would any sensible person think that anything else he said was correct?

What is your definition of working class?

I don't think Matt Goodwin is right about anything.

If working class had actually benefited from Brexit, then I might be able to begin to follow your logic, even though it is fundamentally flawed because many working class people voted Remain and many middle class people voted Leave.

But in light of the fact that working class people are significantly worse off as a result of Brexit, just like the rest of us, it is surely rather obvious that the working class people who voted for Brexit didn't "get one over on" anyone - quite the contrary, they were manipulated to vote for an act of monumental self harm because it suited the interests of the elites who were manipulating them.

Don't be so controlling. Its a Sunday morning

Plenty of people call Labour left wing. I do (I just don't see the left as being on the side of the working class). So why don't you?