Is Matt Goodwin correct about this?

[molanasulfi]

Is professor Matthew Goodwin right that that middle-class leftists are so angry at Brexit, because it is the first time they have lost a major thing and it infuriates then to see the working class get one over on them?

You can back up that claim of right wing "racisim"?. Or do you mean reasonable concerns regarding immigration.

An endorsement from Tommy Robinson, remigration, the Great Replacement conpiracy theory, and that's just a start

There are fringe elements on both ends of the political spectrum. No point slagging off one end and ignoring the faults on the other. They both join up eventually anyway. I think we can all agree that far left and far right are both bad.

And of course as we all know, the left killed more people than the right in the last century.

So you are saying that your left wing anti semitism comment meant to say the extreme far left? Which comes close to the far rigt anti semitism?

Or how do you define 'left wing loonies'?

I'm glad you stated it's your definition of working class. It's certainly not the normal one!

Well things need to be updated. The working class doesnt mean what it used to mean. And of course the majority of the "working class".no longer vote Labour. So its important for Labour to be able to describe it's voter base and what it's for and in whose interests it acts, if no longer the working class.

Unfortunately for you nobody made you King of the use of language so you don't get to make that decision unilaterally and expect everyone to adapt to your definition. Thankfully!
@BIossomtoes you have the patience of a saint!

Oh don't team up together against me please! Two such political heavy weights! Using phrases like "King of the use of language"! I concede immediately! (Even though you haven't actually made any decent arguments against my definition obviously. Or any real argument at all.)

Nope. The current government aren't left wing loonies. Your Overton window is squint.

They are left wing loonies. Keir Starmer was Corbyn's man remember. We just pretend he's normal. You just don't think he's gone far enough with the socialism. In my view he's gone too far already.

The main argument against your definition is that it's incorrect and not what is in general use. You can't just make something up and assume everyone will follow you especially when it's so poor. As for the rest of your post, well you're just sinking to silly levels now.

You haven't actually made an argument against my definition or explained why you think it doesn't apply. Other than "its incorrect" though. Which isn't the best. Because you don't say why mine is wrong and yours is right. And then you fill in the gap in the box with not very good insults.(sorry. I expect you spent a while on them).

Nothing stays the same forever. And definitions need to apply to the times. And sometimes political parties even make up new definitions to pander to their voting base. Like Islamophobia. So there is precedent, surely.

It doesn't apply because it's not what the general understanding is. I'm not sure why you can't understand this.

So if I decided the term sandwich is outdated and I decided that a better term would be breadham that's fine for me but I can't expect the rest of the population to switch to what I consider to be a better term. Can you understand it now? We aren't all going to use your definition when it's not the common understanding.

I understand your point. I just don't agree with you. It is allowed.

The working lives of people when the social classes were set are not the same as today. I'm simply defining the "working class" as people who work. I don't know why a left winger has such an issue with that. Is it because Labour used to represent the working class and now the working class don't vote for them any more? The non-working class do though. I suppose that doesn't have the same ring? Perhaps that explains things.

The reason we have an issue with your opinion is because it’s incorrect and simplistic. You seem to think everyone who works is working class. That’s patently not true. And it’s ridiculous to say, using your definition, that working people no longer vote for left wing parties when there was a resounding victory for one only last month. Are you seriously suggesting that all the Green voters in G&D don’t work?

Im saying the old definition of working class doesn't apply to today. The government keep changing it anyway, so at least they agree with me.

What was the make up of the Green vote? I thought it was mainly Muslim block voting and students?

I can't be bothered to explain any more. Do you always assume you can declare a new meaning or way of doing things and people will accept it?

Anyway I still think MG is wrong!

Did you now? Or was that Goodwin's excuse?

It’s pointless posting on this thread any more. It’s making me want to bang my head against the wall.

I suppose I’d be a called a middle class leftist. And I don’t view brexit as something the working class “got one over” on. It’s not a situation where I lost out and the “working class” all won. None of us are better off. And I don’t view myself as in competition with people in that way.

And I think anyone who views Farage as a champion of the working classes is an idiot who should read some Reform policies.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/sep/03/race.world

"The last days of a white world
This article is more than 25 years old
We are near a global watershed - a time when white people will not be in the majority in the developed world, Britain included. Anthony Browne reports"

OP why was the Guardian spreading disinformation about debunked theories?

Why are you posting a 26 year old article?

Could the issue be with how we define "left", it's not a terrible useful shorthand anymore.

I agree with @Pineneedlesincarpet to an extent. The issue is that many people are petty desperate to be middle class and therefore cling to the ideal that they are because the are home owners, or have an office job, or a higher than average salary, or a university degree.

This “othering”- allowing them to view themselves as middle class- also gives them card Blanche to make sweeping statements about the others- the working class

if more people accepted that despite their mortgage, degree or professional job, they are working class themselves, this would create a more valuable conversation about society and what would benefit is all, rather then the division and othering class aspiration leads to.

And using 'loony left' is just childish?