Zelensky - Trump meeting.…just horrible. BBC news live.

[JanieJS]

Scary stuff.

I don't know what to say.

And why is Commander Waterford surprised that Zelensky speaks of Putin so disparagingly? He is invading his country?!??

He would probably have lectured Polish leadership about being nasty about Hitler in 1941

Not giving in is declaring war on Russia.

I’m surprised Zelenskyy was left to walk in there on his own actually given that Trump personally hates him. I suppose there are / were reasons why European couldn’t send Donald Tusk or someone with him.

All that hard work by Starmer for nothing.

We’ll have to see how our leaders react. I hope that state visit gets immediately cancelled. Europe will need to step up now - and if need be chuck Hungary out to do it.

In your opinion. Not mine.

It was @Araminta1003 's theory. At 20.39 ^

Our opinions don’t matter.

YABU only on the fact you’re shocked about the whole thing,
He was interviewed few weeks ago where he said he wants to kick all the Palestinians out of their country in the name of rebuilding it but they have no right to come back. And only few days ago he posted a disgustingly revolting video on social media about Gaza will soon belong to America. We have seen it all now.
Ukraine is no different.
He only cares about himself and what he can get out of any deals out there.

I am so glad pathetic people like that PP were not around in 1939.

”If somebody invades your country just let them have it.

I felt so sorry for Zelensky- to be treated so shamefully by such vile school yard bullies. Trump, Vance and everyone that voted for or enables them is a disgrace.

So will you be encouraging your son to enlist?

Har har. They are the only people to have triggered article 5. Because of terrorism, which Europe has endured regularly. We stood with them.

No more.

It's sad but if I were Ukraine I'd have to accept I wasn't getting the 20% of my country back from Russia, but as a gift to America for its attempted extortion I'd be offering the exact same mineral deal to the Chinese if they pressured Russia to halt the invasion. I wonder what Trump would think of that.

If my home was being invaded I would enlist! What's the alternative wait and home to be shot? Some people have no idea of the realities of hostile occupation.

Thing is, Trump and Vance have come out looking like right cunts and have shocked the world with their shitty behaviour. Regardless of whether they sign a deal now or not. Do you think that was what was meant to happen as part of this grand plan?

Your thought.

Absolutely horrendous viewing. Trump and Vance are disgraceful. It was more than uncomfortable viewing. How the hell did they get voted in? What is wrong with the people of America to allow that man in politics.

@Araminta1003 I agree.

I think something more is going on here.

Trump said I can't say terrible things about putin on TV then get on the phone and say hi putin how are you let's do a deal.

Back room diplomacy.

We live in hope.

Zelensky has been defending his country for 3 years from a ruthless invading army. He was communicating in a second language. He went there knowing Trump supported Russia and wanted Zelensky to give up. He then turns up and is insulted, harangued and bullied by two of the vilest men on the planet in full view of the world’s press. Utterly disgusting.

It also puts extra pressure on putin via strengthened eu support.

I am trying to look at all angles and make sense of this.

If Trump had taken a more conciliatory tone how would that help bring about peace. We have become complacent about the danger Russia poses to the world.

Is it possible trump realises there is no chance of peace at all - and a higher chance of nuclear war if he does not make it possible for Putin to come to the table? Trump has to be neutral if he is to broker a peace deal. Zelenskyy basically doesnt think Russia will honor the agreement, that might be true, but I sensed trump was annoyed as Zelenskyy hasn’t even given it a chance yet.

And yes it’s possible things could escalate horribly at any moment within Ukraine.

Bluntly it means Ukraine will have to give up territory. The only way Ukraine has stayed in the fight this long is because of the US. As a retired American military officer who worked closely with allies on 2 continents, I am here to tell you that Europe throwing "some" money at the problem is not going to save Ukraine. NATO militaries are not designed to work without Americans providing crucial assistance, and if Europe is going to hold off Putin it is going to take a lot more than most people here realize.

I'm not sure they care what they 'look like' to us plebians.
They just want to get the best deal.
This could work.

But . . . . @Araminta1003 may have blown the entire cover on mumsnet

You seem to think this is a real 'trump' card (no pun intended). Is courage and principle really so alien to you? I have one son, I adore him utterly and it would ruin me if something happened to him, but I still can't see a worse scenario than giving in to a dictator like Putin. We all want a decent world to hand on to future generations.

Says it all

I don’t think it’s a trump card.

I think it’s the stark reality of what you’re proposing.

I’m not willing to participate in it