Page 12 | So does "far right" mean you're concerned about the impacts of mass immigration?

genesis92 · 2025-01-03T16:13:01+00:00

Cause I'm far right if so then! Genuinely interested to hear what people consider as being "far right". I put it in quotation marks cause the term is so over-used incorrectly, it's actually lost all meaning.

JRSKSSBH · 04/01/2025 12:00

OneAmberFinch · 04/01/2025 11:50

I don't really care about being called far right, same as I don't care about being called a fascist TERF.

Immigration is clearly unsustainable in all categories.

Work visas going to convenience store workers and takeaway shop managers.

Study visas going to "business college" students who don't go to class and just do deliveroo anyway.

Refugee visas going to anyone who shows up on a boat and "lost" their documents.

Family visas going to cousins of people from patriarchal, radically conservative societies who came via the previous routes.

And that's just the people on visas - ignoring all the overstayers in the grey economy doing gig work on borrowed accounts.

I'm an immigrant myself but the benefits Britain is getting from immigration aren't outweighing the costs.

This. Long investigative piece in the Telegraph this morning about the NHS now offering priority services to undocumented migrants. Elderly citizens can wait a week for a doctor’s appointment but young, male failed asylum seekers get full medical assessments and access to Consultant care. How is that fair? If this issue and more is being highlighted by Musk then Bravo. Labour started this by sending 100 activist to campaign for the Dems.

JRSKSSBH · 04/01/2025 12:03

BlueSilverCats · 04/01/2025 11:30

It's incredibly sad but not relevant here. I'm not interested in Elon Musk's agenda or views about child marriage or what he does in the US. I'm interested in the effect his actions (irrelevant of his own motive) has on highlighting this current issue about Asian grooming gangs in the UK.

I think this is the main difference between us. Intent matters to me. Using these girls and their abuse and trauma for his own interests and agenda , can never be a good thing. It's still another powerful man using them for his own gain.

Intent matters….. to the exclusion of everything else? Kindly, that is rather simplistic and childish.

Dbank · 04/01/2025 12:18

If you're asking, does being "concerned about immigration" mean you're "far right", I would say absolutely not.

The majority of people in the UK are "concerned about immigration", (possibly as much as 70% according to YouGov)

I think it was a huge mistake for the Government to dismiss the civil unrest in the summer as being from the "Far Right", without acknowledging there's a lot of more moderate people who feel there concerns aren't being addressed by the established political parties.

The moderate or far right are filling this vacuum, and I think we'll see this demonstrated in the local elections in May.

Do Brits think that immigration has been too high or low in the last 10 years?

Generally speaking, do you think the level of immigration into Britain over the last ten years has been too high, too low or about right?

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/trackers/do-brits-think-that-immigration-has-been-too-high-or-low-in-the-last-10-years?period=1yr

JRSKSSBH · 04/01/2025 12:35

dcbgr · 04/01/2025 00:40

Good question.

First you are incorrect, the largest number are study visas. This is a well-known, and rather dubious route. Universities actively recruit huge numbers of people mainly from India and Nigeria who mainly want to come to the UK for an opportunity of settling. If they pay large fees they get a chance to turn their visa into an opportunity to work and settle. These study immigrants cost the UK more than they contribute. Twenty years ago UK higher education was able to train our own professionals without relying on fees from these 'pretend' students. Universities should go back to focusing on educating UK students not taking money from people who want to emigrate not be educated.

Second are work visas. That is very obvious, the UK should train and educate its own workers and not import people who a) would do much more good in their own countries b) are often not trained to the same standards and skills as in the UK c) cost tax-payers more than they pay in taxes. Most low-paid workers (care, food, services) are a large net cost to tax-payers as has been convincingly shown by studies from the Netherlands, Sweden, Denmark.

Third is family re-unification or chain migration. This should just be stopped. It obviously doesn't make sense that if one person comes and then they bring their six children and seven siblings and the seven siblings have six children each and they all get to come and then the six children's partners bring their parents and siblings....And if they come from Africa, the middle east or Asia they end up costing the taxpayer around one million USD over their life time as well as adding to pollution, congestion, housing shortage and decline in social capital.

Family reunification is something Denmark has clamped down on hard and it has helped to reduce their migration numbers a lot. I read something in one of the Sunday papers last year about the abuse of student visas and the ability for a student to bring with them 3, 4 or 5 dependents. It is/ was possible to segue from a postgraduate student visa to a work visa, stay in this country for the necessary period of years and then apply to stay. The problem was this route wasn’t being used by high quality graduates studying at Russell Group universities, but for studies with low grade ex-poly institutions by individuals who don’t possess great intelligence or skills (of whom the country already has
a decent supply) and who won’t contribute enough to the country financially meaning they take more from the state than they give.

1dayatatime · 04/01/2025 13:23

BlueSilverCats · 04/01/2025 10:45

White working class people don't matter to large parts of the establishment.

There's definitely a hierarchy of mattering. Not necessarily race based, but more lack of power and prejudice based.

This was epitomised by Emily Thornberry's tweet and resignation:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30148768.amp

TooBigForMyBoots · 04/01/2025 14:52

mumandmumber · 03/01/2025 23:17

My real experience:
My husband is right of central, with concerns over immigration. If this comes up amongst the majority of our left wing friends, and he voices his concerns, they label
him right wing or far right and it gets awkward to the point he has started to not share his opinions anymore.

It is happening. And I see it every day on social media too.

Show quote history

You're husband is right wing, you said so yourself. Why does he not like it when people say it?

AIBot · 04/01/2025 15:37

This is my point - this is the kind of debate we need to be able to have without facing accusations of racism. If the current government made these policy changes and communicated them well, the majority of reasonable concerns around immigration would be addressed, beneficial immigration would still be encouraged.

But there’s a minority that are are exploiting the situation for their own ends.

AIBot · 04/01/2025 15:38

dcbgr · 04/01/2025 00:40

Good question.

First you are incorrect, the largest number are study visas. This is a well-known, and rather dubious route. Universities actively recruit huge numbers of people mainly from India and Nigeria who mainly want to come to the UK for an opportunity of settling. If they pay large fees they get a chance to turn their visa into an opportunity to work and settle. These study immigrants cost the UK more than they contribute. Twenty years ago UK higher education was able to train our own professionals without relying on fees from these 'pretend' students. Universities should go back to focusing on educating UK students not taking money from people who want to emigrate not be educated.

Second are work visas. That is very obvious, the UK should train and educate its own workers and not import people who a) would do much more good in their own countries b) are often not trained to the same standards and skills as in the UK c) cost tax-payers more than they pay in taxes. Most low-paid workers (care, food, services) are a large net cost to tax-payers as has been convincingly shown by studies from the Netherlands, Sweden, Denmark.

Third is family re-unification or chain migration. This should just be stopped. It obviously doesn't make sense that if one person comes and then they bring their six children and seven siblings and the seven siblings have six children each and they all get to come and then the six children's partners bring their parents and siblings....And if they come from Africa, the middle east or Asia they end up costing the taxpayer around one million USD over their life time as well as adding to pollution, congestion, housing shortage and decline in social capital.

Above in response to this post

jokeynever · 04/01/2025 16:36

genesis92 · 03/01/2025 23:44

So you think the levels of immigration over the last few years are a "net benefit"?.

Only a very small percentage (I think around 16%) of the vast immigration numbers come over on high skilled work visas. The rest are students/dependents etc.

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It's not a question of what I think. The subject has been studied by people who know more about it than me, who have access to much more comprehensive data than med, and they have repeatedly come to that conclusion. As there are clearly understandable reasons for it (immigrants usually come to the country in young adulthood, whereupon they can soon start working and paying taxes, without having been through the 18 years of childhood as a net drain on state resources that native born people have) I have no reason to doubt that conclusion.

And the student visas are basically supporting our higher education sector. Many universities are now on the point of bankruptcy, and having to massively reduce their offering, due to reductions in the cash cow that was foreign students. Why the f* do we want to do away with that and the obvious benefits it brings to UK nationals in higher ed? All to appease the stupid bigots who don't understand the maths.

EmmaMaria · 04/01/2025 16:54

Nordione1 · 04/01/2025 11:03

It's incredibly sad but not relevant here. I'm not interested in Elon Musk's agenda or views about child marriage or what he does in the US. I'm interested in the effect his actions (irrelevant of his own motive) has on highlighting this current issue about Asian grooming gangs in the UK.

Show quote history

But given that he is also calling for the release of Tommy Robinson, are we then to assume that trafficking girls is ok provided it's white men like him and his mates who do it? He (and some people on here) seem to be only interested in highlightiong these things when it is Asian men involved. To be clear, no men should be grooming girls of any age or women for trafficking or anything else, but there does seem to be a "free pass" when it comes to the white men doing it. Men it would appear like Tommy Robinson and his mate Andrew Tate. Perhaps Elon Musk should be commenting on them?

Oh, hang on. He has been hasn't he? Amongst the many things they share in common...https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/elon-musk-andrew-tate-4chan-x-twitter-high-status-males-b2606622.html

This was three months ago - and not the only example (hence lobbying for the release of Tommy Robinson).

People who praise Elon Musk for this are in bed with the enemy - you, those girls, all are nothing to him. He's superior to you all.

Frankly he and his mates can fuck off to their dream republic of high-statius males. I nominate Naen or Runit Island to site the republic. They won't be high-status after a few months there!

What is the sexist theory shared by Elon Musk for a republic of ‘high-status males’

Misogynistic influencer Andrew Tate has identified himself as “high-status male” in the past

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/elon-musk-andrew-tate-4chan-x-twitter-high-status-males-b2606622.html

OneAmberFinch · 04/01/2025 16:59

JRSKSSBH · 04/01/2025 12:35

Family reunification is something Denmark has clamped down on hard and it has helped to reduce their migration numbers a lot. I read something in one of the Sunday papers last year about the abuse of student visas and the ability for a student to bring with them 3, 4 or 5 dependents. It is/ was possible to segue from a postgraduate student visa to a work visa, stay in this country for the necessary period of years and then apply to stay. The problem was this route wasn’t being used by high quality graduates studying at Russell Group universities, but for studies with low grade ex-poly institutions by individuals who don’t possess great intelligence or skills (of whom the country already has
a decent supply) and who won’t contribute enough to the country financially meaning they take more from the state than they give.

Show quote history

Exactly.

Not to mention said universities not even enforcing attendance while their students just go and do deliveroo/uber under fake or borrowed accounts.

Why do we need to prop up 3rd-tier universities again?

BlueSilverCats · 04/01/2025 17:01

@EmmaMaria Musk himself has several allegations and lawsuits against him for sexual assault/harassment. Latest filed last year in June. Funny that.

Nordione1 · 04/01/2025 17:03

EmmaMaria · 04/01/2025 16:54

But given that he is also calling for the release of Tommy Robinson, are we then to assume that trafficking girls is ok provided it's white men like him and his mates who do it? He (and some people on here) seem to be only interested in highlightiong these things when it is Asian men involved. To be clear, no men should be grooming girls of any age or women for trafficking or anything else, but there does seem to be a "free pass" when it comes to the white men doing it. Men it would appear like Tommy Robinson and his mate Andrew Tate. Perhaps Elon Musk should be commenting on them?

Oh, hang on. He has been hasn't he? Amongst the many things they share in common...https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/elon-musk-andrew-tate-4chan-x-twitter-high-status-males-b2606622.html

This was three months ago - and not the only example (hence lobbying for the release of Tommy Robinson).

People who praise Elon Musk for this are in bed with the enemy - you, those girls, all are nothing to him. He's superior to you all.

Frankly he and his mates can fuck off to their dream republic of high-statius males. I nominate Naen or Runit Island to site the republic. They won't be high-status after a few months there!

Show quote history

Unfortunately in this country we only approve of the "right sort" of messenger. And we focus on the messenger rather than the message.

RobinEllacotStrike · 04/01/2025 17:15

Calling someone "far right" for asking questions or being concerned about uncontrolled immigration & high rates of illegal immigration is exactly like being called "transphobic" for wanting women only spaces or not agreeing TWAW.

It's a weapon designed to get people to shut up and stop asking questions or talking about important issues. They think we will quake in fear at these names and STFU.

It worked for a while but as more people wake up to these tactics they are shrugging the silliness of these abusive labels and talking more.

Most people don't want to be called far right/transphobic etc. But when a person eventually realises what's going on, like the op, they shrug and say ok then, call me what you want but I will still discuss these issues.

huge swathes of very normal central, right leaning & left leaning people are now being called "far right" and "transphobic". It doesn't help anyone or anything.

EmmaMaria · 04/01/2025 17:23

BlueSilverCats · 04/01/2025 17:01

@EmmaMaria Musk himself has several allegations and lawsuits against him for sexual assault/harassment. Latest filed last year in June. Funny that.

Yeah, but he's not responsible for his actions because he's autistic don't you know? But then if you have enough money I guess you can buy anything, including diagnoses.

EmmaMaria · 04/01/2025 17:30

Nordione1 · 04/01/2025 17:03

Unfortunately in this country we only approve of the "right sort" of messenger. And we focus on the messenger rather than the message.

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We should do that in any country. There was this guy a bit back who peddled the lie that certain groups of people were acting against the countries interests - you know, sort of like arriving in small boats, being terrorists, being the only people to act in certain ways, that sort of thing. People were stupid enough to believe him. Lots of people. As a result six million Jews dies in extermination camps, and that is before we start in on the disabled, Gypsies and other "undesirables" bent on destroying Germany. And we also havn't included the men and women on both sides of the war killed because of a madman's vision.

It's a bloody good idea to examine any messenger before you swallow the message hook, line, and sinker. Because the message is always about the messenger.

Nordione1 · 04/01/2025 17:33

EmmaMaria · 04/01/2025 17:30

We should do that in any country. There was this guy a bit back who peddled the lie that certain groups of people were acting against the countries interests - you know, sort of like arriving in small boats, being terrorists, being the only people to act in certain ways, that sort of thing. People were stupid enough to believe him. Lots of people. As a result six million Jews dies in extermination camps, and that is before we start in on the disabled, Gypsies and other "undesirables" bent on destroying Germany. And we also havn't included the men and women on both sides of the war killed because of a madman's vision.

It's a bloody good idea to examine any messenger before you swallow the message hook, line, and sinker. Because the message is always about the messenger.

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Are you saying the Holocaust happened because Hitler was angry about Jewish boat people arriving to Germany and committing acts of terrorism?

lurchermummy · 04/01/2025 17:40

@Goody2ShoesAndTheFilthyBeast but there's a huge difference between being an expat and being an immigrant - expats are generally moving to another country for job opportunities, they have particular skills and it's generally a temporary thing. Or they are retired or have an independent income to support them. They are not expecting the host country to house them, or give them state benefits. Massive difference.

EmmaMaria · 04/01/2025 17:47

I am saying that he made up a rhetoric that was a Big Lie (look it up), in order to support his personal position - just like Elon Musk is doing. You claimed that the message is more important than the messenger. That is never true. The messenger is the person who selects which aspects of the message he wants you to hear, why he wants you to hear it, and what he wants you to think or do as a result. You should always consider the messenger. Elon Musk thinks - and has said so publically - that he and a select group of men are of higher status than most men and all women. He is friends with the likes of Andrew Tate and has personally supported the guys misogynistic message. He does not give a fuck about women and girls. He doesn't care about Starmer either. Or Trump. Elon Musk cares about himself and his warped view of the world. I do not like Starmer. I despise Trump. Elon Musk is right though. He is in a different category. He is dangerous. He cares nothing about women and girls, he cares nothing about Starmer, nor even Trump and Farage. He is the puppet master, and you are falling for his rhetoric.

Nordione1 · 04/01/2025 17:51

EmmaMaria · 04/01/2025 17:47

I am saying that he made up a rhetoric that was a Big Lie (look it up), in order to support his personal position - just like Elon Musk is doing. You claimed that the message is more important than the messenger. That is never true. The messenger is the person who selects which aspects of the message he wants you to hear, why he wants you to hear it, and what he wants you to think or do as a result. You should always consider the messenger. Elon Musk thinks - and has said so publically - that he and a select group of men are of higher status than most men and all women. He is friends with the likes of Andrew Tate and has personally supported the guys misogynistic message. He does not give a fuck about women and girls. He doesn't care about Starmer either. Or Trump. Elon Musk cares about himself and his warped view of the world. I do not like Starmer. I despise Trump. Elon Musk is right though. He is in a different category. He is dangerous. He cares nothing about women and girls, he cares nothing about Starmer, nor even Trump and Farage. He is the puppet master, and you are falling for his rhetoric.

So you think Elon Musk's is the "wrong sort" of messenger.

What do you think about the message itself?

username299 · 04/01/2025 17:53

Nordione1 · 04/01/2025 17:51

So you think Elon Musk's is the "wrong sort" of messenger.

What do you think about the message itself?

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That it's far right rabble rousing and seems to have got people into a tiz.

Nordione1 · 04/01/2025 17:57

username299 · 04/01/2025 17:53

That it's far right rabble rousing and seems to have got people into a tiz.

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I'm happy with being a far right bigot these days. I'm in good sensible company on this thread and with the majority of the UK it appears from polls.

username299 · 04/01/2025 18:01

Nordione1 · 04/01/2025 17:57

I'm happy with being a far right bigot these days. I'm in good sensible company on this thread and with the majority of the UK it appears from polls.

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Yeah. Really sensible. You've come out with no feasible solutions to immigration except to let universities close.

You're seemingly obsessed with immigrants yet you personally benefited from immigration.

Then you talk about child abuse which isn't to do with immigrants.

You're no doubt a Brexiter. Very sensible.

Upstartled · 04/01/2025 18:02

Far right bigot signing in. Formerly known as a feminist who gives a shit about women 🤷🏼‍♀️

Nordione1 · 04/01/2025 18:06

username299 · 04/01/2025 18:01

Yeah. Really sensible. You've come out with no feasible solutions to immigration except to let universities close.

You're seemingly obsessed with immigrants yet you personally benefited from immigration.

Then you talk about child abuse which isn't to do with immigrants.

You're no doubt a Brexiter. Very sensible.

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Do I, as a far right bigot, now also need to come up with a feasible immigration policy? Surely that's asking the fox to look after the chicken coop?? Gosh..OK I will give it some thought. I would probably need to involve mass deportations (including my mum..how did she sneak in?) or camps or something being a far right bigot?