Angry at scrapping of 2 child limit

[BearBuggy]

I know there are a few families that find themselves in rotten circumstances and this isn’t aimed at them . However I live in an area where having children to continue to receive benefits was the norm and only now the cap is in place has that stopped.

The Scottish government has now announced it will be scrapped. I am so angry I’m paying towards people breeding children they can’t afford. I didn’t vote SNp this time because of this, as did many of my friends. They lost heavily in my area but still seem to not care what the tax payer is saying.

Labour in charge though in socotland so is this actually happening or a want that the snp want if they get elected again

poverty stats show highest ever number of children living in poverty in the UK | Action For Children Child poverty stats

30% of children currently live in poverty compared to 20% of people of working age and 16% of pensioners. It's not their fault people have children.

@Littlemissgobby SNP hold majority in Scotland?

Oh OK thought labour did thanks for correcting me

@Drivingoverlemons I agree child poverty needs addressing but don’t believe this is the solution. I live in an area with high poverty. I see hungry children every day without jackets and it’s heartbreaking.
Doesn’t stop the parents getting pissed at the weekend or enjoying a daily can of monster 🙄 Paid out of benefits as none of them work

Labour holds a majority in Scotland now. Not sure how it works with this change though as SNP are still in power so maybe it just goes through.

They do not

Yawn

So a proper benefit bashing thread.
We hadn’t had one for a while….

They hold the balance of power in the Scottish Parliament with help from the greens. https://www.parliament.scot/msps/current-party-balance

I've never understood why people fail to see that there IS many who absolutely relish being on benefits, and many children will not see the extra money as their parents will continue to use it to make poor choices.

I come from a very deprived Scottish town. The roots of poverty run far deeper than any money thrown at it would ever reach. Massive changes in attitude are required, generations of families on benefits needs to be stopped, I know MANY people who have 0 intentions of work and some how find loopholes. Including by having children.

I've been on benefits twice, it was utterly hellish and the hoops I jumped through were ridiculous just to receive a pittance.

We need a robust welfare state as anyone could fall on hard times, but we also need intervention to ensure we have people who want to grow and break these moulds.

Those in genuine need, should always get what they need and I don't think this is what tbe OP was talking about.

The stats paint a different picture and the cap didn't seem to make much difference at all.
"The data shows that the probability of having a third or subsequent child declined by just 0.36 percentage points (or 5 per cent) after the introduction of the two-child limit – equivalent to reducing the number of births by around 5,600 a year." From https://cpag.org.uk/news/has-two-child-limit-affected-how-many-children-families-have

There is no way to penalise families for having kids they can’t afford that does not punish innocent kids. The state then picks up the tab for the ongoing harms done to kids who grow up in poverty.
It’s a bad policy, whatever your stance on benefits.

I find the 30% statistic truely shocking. Just a reminder, this is 30% of children in the UK living in absolute poverty, meaning inadquate housing, heating clothes and food. This is the very basics. It’s truely shameful for a developed country.

The level of children in poverty in scotland is at 24%, so is less than the UK average of 30%.

So the cap has reduced the number of children being born by 5% but how much more is it costing us to have all these children living in poverty. Children with constant chest infections from living in damp conditions etc.

I used to have views on other people's Reproductive choices. But then I suffered from infertility (9 years of unprotected sex and no baby; I married at 22). So I was 32 with a mortgage, husband, 121k household income (doesn't go that far in London but our mortgage for a 2 bed flat is 1282) but getting negative pregnancy tests every month and doing fertility investigations.

I got made redundant in october with a 9300 quid pay out. Thankfully we still had dh's income (75k per annum) and around 54k in savings (though only 27k is instantly accessible). But it is terribly terribly irresponsible to ttc while unemployed, isn't it. But I wasn't getting younger or more fertile, I had been referred to uclh fertility clinic. I conceived 10 days after I was made redundant. I am nearly 8 weeks pregnant and interviewing frantically, hoping to secure a few months of work before I go on maternity leave. I plan to work after baby so my new role needs to be able to pay for childcare too.

Dh says we would never have conceived if I wasn't off work. I don't know about that but I do know that I have been trying for years and nothing ever happened. This is my last chance to be a mother possibly. Dh is getting a vasectomy after this as we don't plan on anymore (dont want to go through the whole ttc heartbreak), so there are times I feel sad that my only pregnancy would be one where I feel stressed about jobs. But the point is you don't know anyone's story. Most people would probably say I am very irresponsible but I don't care as my child is a miracle. Not sure why some woman's third child is any different.

Maybe replacing the child benefits with vouchers that can only be spent on groceries and children’s items would be a compromise. The problem is the cap did hurl a lot of children into food poverty and they should not be penalised for their parents decisions.

I honestly don’t think anyone, rich or poor, should have more than two children as our world is literally catching fire in places - the planet can not survive if we don’t curb population growth and reduce consumption. In the same light punishing children is not the answer. Maybe financial incentives for getting a coil fitted after your second child and replace child benefits with food vouchers that can not be spent on alcohol.

@Wobblecushion

Not absolute poverty, it's relative poverty - poverty in the U.K. is defined as a percentage of average income therefore it's relative. I'm not saying some kids aren't in bad situations, just you cannot compare to countries where there's no benefits, no housing support etc - that's absolute poverty.

The OP was stating incorrectly that the SNP holds a majority, they do not, Labour do.

@BearBuggy The 2 child limit applies to everybody, not just those you characterise as breeding children they cannot afford.

Lots of people have third or fourth while they can well afford them. One day he's fit as a fiddle and then the next he's not and will never earn again. Or he beggars off with another woman leaving the Mother of his kids to pick up the pieces.

I do Universal Credit advice for a living so I see these people everyday.

Do you think it's right for kids in that case to be impoverished so you can feel better about the so called 'feckless poor'?

There are kids with rickets in the UK, kids that go days without food. It is not just relative poverty it is kids not growing properly because they have inadequate nutrition. The UK is one of the worst in the developed world for child poverty - there was a whole study and report on it a few years ago.

Huh?

If it breaks your heart to see children without, I would have thought you’d be an advocate for increased benefits in addition to the cap being reversed.

How much extra are we talking about? A couple hundred or less per child?

Presumably most kids will have it spent on them AND the extra spent may circulate in the local economy creating more jobs that lift more children out of poverty.

I’ve never claimed benefits but as we saw during pandemic, shit happens and I’ll be glad to know I can survive off whatever’s offered.

The problem is the cap did hurl a lot of children into food poverty and they should not be penalised for their parents decisions.

It shouldn't have hurled anyone into food poverty. Children already born/conceived weren't affected by it. Only children born after it was already announced, at which point you've had hoped their parents would have made an informed decision whether to have another child, knowing it wouldn't attract any further benefits

"Breeding"...

Some if those may not be choices of the parent eg coercive relationship
Agree more money should be put into education and supporting good choices. Penalising the children is not the way forward

Labour do not hold hold a majority in the Scottish Parliament. It is the Scottish Parliament that is scrapping the two child cap. Labour hope to achieve a majority in the 2026 Scottish Parliament elections.