Angry at scrapping of 2 child limit

[BearBuggy]

I know there are a few families that find themselves in rotten circumstances and this isn’t aimed at them . However I live in an area where having children to continue to receive benefits was the norm and only now the cap is in place has that stopped.

The Scottish government has now announced it will be scrapped. I am so angry I’m paying towards people breeding children they can’t afford. I didn’t vote SNp this time because of this, as did many of my friends. They lost heavily in my area but still seem to not care what the tax payer is saying.

It's all relative. 75k is pretty low income in London (we had higher nett income in 2019 when we bought the flat as at least the 75k household income then was spread across 2 salaries). OP said she lives in a deprived area, maybe living on benefits is doable where she lives.

We only get by cos the mortgage is lowish (for London and can be covered by dh's salary) as we used my salary to overpay the mortgage in the good years (2 bed flat is tiny but many londoners raise children in far smaller spaces). also we have a mortgage while many families on benefits presumably get housing benefit so we need to earn more.

I don't think it would last hence why I am trying to get a job now before I start to show. But you don't necessarily get a child when everything is perfect. I am hopeful that things will change and I will get a job and we will be able to earn our old household income (though I do expect that childcare will eat up a big chunk of my salary so may not end up much better but given my old pay was 3k nett, it is still 1k more than childcare)..

I believe the state should support mothers having children given how low the birth rate is.

I wonder if removing it will make work not pay for some families with multiple children. There is the Scottish child payment for all families that receive any universal credit and is currently set around £26 per child.
working hard to achieve in Scotland is of less benefit due to the 42% tax kicking in at around £43k.
work needs to pay. There needs to be an incentive.
i don’t want children to live in poverty, but i also want my children to see some benefit to the £4k our household lose in tax compared to England.

I think people who are genuinely feckless aren’t going to be prioritising their kids needs regardless of how much money they have. I don’t think thats the majority.

The people I know who are child free are all well earning professionals. 3 children is a belt tightener for most normal families I don’t think you should be exempt because you are working low or no hours from making the same choices a household where everyone is working full time hours and don’t qualify for anything have to. I don’t think 2 kids is inhumane at all.

I don't believe the cap stopped people being on benefits but it has pushed children to beyond poverty levels. I think there are other ways to hold adults accountable without starving children.

I think you would be better off if you targeted children who aren’t being neglected through school and social services support. If parents are choosing not to buy clothes and decent food for their kids I think the cash should be turned into vouchers.

• "69% of poor children lived in working families" https://lordslibrary.parliament.uk/child-poverty-statistics-causes-and-the-uks-policy-response/ (published April 2024)

So lets not forget that most families in poverty actually have at least one parent working.

“A child is said to be living in poverty if they live in a household with income below 60 per cent of the national average (median) income.”

Given that child poverty is measured as a percentage of an ever increasing average, how on earth can the numbers deemed ‘poor’ever decrease?
While I’m not suggesting at all that there is not poverty or deprivation, it seems pretty obvious that not EVERYONE can be above an average! By definition, some will always fall below that line
……unless I’m missing something obvious?

There is the Scottish child payment for all families that receive any universal credit and is currently set around £26 per child.

And there will probably be the usual SNP shenanigans whereby the entitlement to that is reduced, or the groups of people who get it is changed, and the nett effect will be the square root of fuck all, but the SNP have grabbed the headlines. Again.

And distracted people from talking about all of their other fuck ups, of which there are many.

Well, do you imagine for one minute if those benefits were withdrawn those parents would think, "Oh, better divert the remaining money to the children, really, really can't afford to drink any more"? Benefits are designed to improve the lives of children, who obviously can't fend for themselves; they're also there to help iron out the random inequalities in society - children have no choice over being born, and to whom.

Personally, I have no problem paying towards supporting those who cannot support themselves and have no bloody choice about their crap parents. I agree that it takes a lot of effort to raise the welfare and life chances of poor children, and that it's complicated. But taking money away from already poor children isn't the way to do it. And all the complicated stuff that is needed to secure better life chances takes state provision and tax revenues.

@Patterncarmen I hope we have moved beyond the deserving and undeserving poor debate by now.

I am afraid you need to hope harder. The debate is alive and well on two out of three MN threads.

What if they weren’t on benefits when they had their third child?

I have to agree with OP here.

I think it will take so much more than scrapping the 2 child limit for families to be no longer living in poverty.

My experience of poverty is that it is so steeped in generational trauma, low self esteem, and being unable to create positive change for themselves, that throwing money into parents pockets doesn't help. It won't lower the number of people using food banks. It will barely make a difference to day to day living for most.

The country has very little respect for people living in poverty and the lower working class and it's sad. However, when it comes to child benefit, I do feel that woman / men / families need to take more responsibility for themselves. There seems to be a bit of an entitled attitude that has developed over time. Doing a quick google search tells you that the cost of raising a child in the UK is on average about £11k per year (variable to age and location). Child benefit doesn't touch that. Therefore this really needs to be thought about before having kids - if you cannot afford this then the likelihood is that you are going to experience poverty at some stage .

This really isn't a post to "benefit bash". I really wish it wasn't so dire here and nobody deserves to live in poverty . I just think the money should be used elsewhere.

If you've seen actual child poverty you might realise just how awful it is. There are very, very few feckless parents. If people who are comfortable made their money go as quarter as far as poor families do they would be millionaires.
By the way most people entitled to UC are working. Having three kids when you're working is not a crime.

Yes, and it is very depressing to witness. This is about children…one in four in the UK grow up in poverty. And it is a few weeks before Christmas, which is about a child born to a humble family.

Those of you out there who want to help, consider a donation to the Trussel Trust or here
https://www.actionforchildren.org.uk/support-us/secret-santa/donate/
Or the Child Poverty Action Group.

Childen shouldn't suffer because of parents failing

Children living with their parents is by far the best option for everyone

Yes to more money for other things too- not instead of

This. It’s only a small amount of people that are producing children to claim benefits, just the same as the very few people that are claiming disability when they are capable of work, if we take away these benefits for everyone due to the small amount of people screwing over the system we put a lot of people into poverty.

A lot of working families are claiming CB and UC and are still struggling to feed their kids. A lot of women are fleeing domestic/abusive relationships and are having to provide for their children, many never needed to claim benefits before (when the children were conceived), people’s circumstances change. Do we really want so many suffering just because of the small amount of people trying to screw over the system?

No they do not.

The SNP are a minority government - hence the Greens held hugely disproportionate sway.

I agree it should being place. Why should folk get more money for having more children.

Labour holds a majority in Scotland now

Also incorrect.

This is a Devolved matter. Scottish Government is currently an SNP minority.

Nope.

Why should children go without the basics because rich people are selfish?

Or perhaps you will force abortion on parents who fail your financial test?

My view is that you should never be better off on benefits than you are working.

I think it’s so sad that a number of working parents have limited themselves to the number of children that they can afford to take care of, whilst some parents on benefits don’t have to make the same tough choices.

No child should be brought into a life of suffering or lack, but that’s a decision that parents should make before having them.

Rather than removing the cap, I personally would look at working parents close to minimum wage and ensure that they get a boost.

Are there no prisons...?

At least it's the right time of year for it. Bloody hell.

With a possible exception for people with profoundly disabled children you never are.