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Original poster

Angry at scrapping of 2 child limit

580 replies

BearBuggy · 04/12/2024 15:42

I know there are a few families that find themselves in rotten circumstances and this isn’t aimed at them . However I live in an area where having children to continue to receive benefits was the norm and only now the cap is in place has that stopped.

The Scottish government has now announced it will be scrapped. I am so angry I’m paying towards people breeding children they can’t afford. I didn’t vote SNp this time because of this, as did many of my friends. They lost heavily in my area but still seem to not care what the tax payer is saying.

OP posts:
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13
IVFmumoftwo · 04/12/2024 18:08

Well I hope this means England will restore it as there isn't much choice really. I thought the SNP said they didn't have enough money. 🤔

Choobakka · 04/12/2024 18:08

OonaStubbs · 04/12/2024 18:01

The more money you pay to poor people to have children, the more children they have. It's absolute lunacy to scrap the 2 child limit. It should be reduced to 1 child if anything.

Yes, only rich people should be allowed to have children. That would definitely make for a more balanced and equitable society.

RosyappleA · 04/12/2024 18:08

All over Europe they have begun incentives to encourage people to have children. The UK has seen the biggest fall in fertility rates amongst the richer countries.

By the end of this century most nations will see a dramatic drop in population.

The global fertility rate was 2.1 in 2023. The replacement rate is 2.2.

Even in India fertility is below replacement. This means slower economic growth.

Doodar · 04/12/2024 18:08

the families its aimed at won't spend the money on their kids anyway! money down the drain.

TaylorSwish · 04/12/2024 18:09

Sunshine1500 · 04/12/2024 16:47

Child benefit should be available for every child, no one knows anyone’s full circumstances. Many children/mothers need it.

This 👏
I don’t think we should punish the children because their parents chose to have more than 2 children.

babyproblems · 04/12/2024 18:10

Wobblecushion · 04/12/2024 16:24

I find the 30% statistic truely shocking. Just a reminder, this is 30% of children in the UK living in absolute poverty, meaning inadquate housing, heating clothes and food. This is the very basics. It’s truely shameful for a developed country.

The level of children in poverty in scotland is at 24%, so is less than the UK average of 30%.

Show quote history

Agree

DrZaraCarmichael · 04/12/2024 18:10

IVFmumoftwo · 04/12/2024 18:08

Well I hope this means England will restore it as there isn't much choice really. I thought the SNP said they didn't have enough money. 🤔

Details details…. Little things like being financially responsible don’t bother them. See also : missing £600k, fraud charges, motor home.

midgetastic · 04/12/2024 18:10

The evidence is that the two child limit put more childen i to poverty

No child should live in poverty

But screw the evidence if it stops you getting a tax break or take away your chance to smugly judge others

I mean you want to fund your skiing trip and Disney holiday ... or don't you like sweeping generalisations when it involves you ?

XDownwiththissortofthingX · 04/12/2024 18:12

DrZaraCarmichael · 04/12/2024 18:10

Details details…. Little things like being financially responsible don’t bother them. See also : missing £600k, fraud charges, motor home.

Show quote history

There is no "missing" 600k. The party themselves have long admitted it was spent on campaigning and sundry other expenses.

The "embezzlement" in question hinges on the issue of what precisely "ringfenced" means in accounting and the obligations therein.

SerenePeach · 04/12/2024 18:13

Babyname2025 · 04/12/2024 16:28

I used to have views on other people's Reproductive choices. But then I suffered from infertility (9 years of unprotected sex and no baby; I married at 22). So I was 32 with a mortgage, husband, 121k household income (doesn't go that far in London but our mortgage for a 2 bed flat is 1282) but getting negative pregnancy tests every month and doing fertility investigations.

I got made redundant in october with a 9300 quid pay out. Thankfully we still had dh's income (75k per annum) and around 54k in savings (though only 27k is instantly accessible). But it is terribly terribly irresponsible to ttc while unemployed, isn't it. But I wasn't getting younger or more fertile, I had been referred to uclh fertility clinic. I conceived 10 days after I was made redundant. I am nearly 8 weeks pregnant and interviewing frantically, hoping to secure a few months of work before I go on maternity leave. I plan to work after baby so my new role needs to be able to pay for childcare too.

Dh says we would never have conceived if I wasn't off work. I don't know about that but I do know that I have been trying for years and nothing ever happened. This is my last chance to be a mother possibly. Dh is getting a vasectomy after this as we don't plan on anymore (dont want to go through the whole ttc heartbreak), so there are times I feel sad that my only pregnancy would be one where I feel stressed about jobs. But the point is you don't know anyone's story. Most people would probably say I am very irresponsible but I don't care as my child is a miracle. Not sure why some woman's third child is any different.

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I would have thought the difference between a desperately wanted only child after 9 years of trying and fertility treatment and a third child when a couple already has 2 children to love and can't afford to look after a third properly was quite obvious.

Emptyandsad · 04/12/2024 18:14

albapunk · 04/12/2024 16:21

I've never understood why people fail to see that there IS many who absolutely relish being on benefits, and many children will not see the extra money as their parents will continue to use it to make poor choices.

I come from a very deprived Scottish town. The roots of poverty run far deeper than any money thrown at it would ever reach. Massive changes in attitude are required, generations of families on benefits needs to be stopped, I know MANY people who have 0 intentions of work and some how find loopholes. Including by having children.

I've been on benefits twice, it was utterly hellish and the hoops I jumped through were ridiculous just to receive a pittance.

We need a robust welfare state as anyone could fall on hard times, but we also need intervention to ensure we have people who want to grow and break these moulds.

Those in genuine need, should always get what they need and I don't think this is what tbe OP was talking about.

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You found being on benefits "utterly hellish and the hoops I jumped through were ridiculous just to receive a pittance", but the feckless poor "absolutely relish" it 🤔

I wonder why that is? What are they finding to luxuriate in that you somehow couldn't access?

Idle bastards

But obviously cunning too...

Cableknitdreams · 04/12/2024 18:16

I really like children, believe strongly in parents being allowed to be with their children and bring them up rather than forced to work long hours with little support, and, because I want happiness and health for all and most of all for innocent children, don't want any children to live in poverty.

I want my taxes to go towards child benefits and child elements of universal credit.

I also happen NOT to believe in setting up a system whereby the less well off are penalised for being less well off. Above all, I do not believe in trying to curb reproductive rights of less well-off women.

ismu · 04/12/2024 18:16

If you've ever smelt a child who's parents can't afford to wash and dry their clothes
Or seen a child who only has one pair of wet shoes try hard to keep their feet warm
Or heard the cough of a child whose parent has to decide whether they can afford to put the heating on in their bedroom
Or seen the school prom "boutique"
and the invitations sent out by teachers to ensure all students have a clean, fresh gown provided for free with some dignity

You'd never ever complain about feckless benefit scroungers again.
The scroungers I've met have all been well off people who know their entitlements and demand them, unpleasantly

Rosie879 · 04/12/2024 18:16

As much as it confuses me slightly when I see yet another child being born to parents who already don't seem to be able to adequately parent the ones they have (despite the benefits), the stats around child poverty mean I could never support the cap.

It'll never be a deterrent for some and it's their children that'll suffer fundamentally. I just assume the money is being spent on most DC whose parents are in receipt of them.

IdgieThreadgoodeIsMyHeroine · 04/12/2024 18:17

Babyname2025 · 04/12/2024 16:28

I used to have views on other people's Reproductive choices. But then I suffered from infertility (9 years of unprotected sex and no baby; I married at 22). So I was 32 with a mortgage, husband, 121k household income (doesn't go that far in London but our mortgage for a 2 bed flat is 1282) but getting negative pregnancy tests every month and doing fertility investigations.

I got made redundant in october with a 9300 quid pay out. Thankfully we still had dh's income (75k per annum) and around 54k in savings (though only 27k is instantly accessible). But it is terribly terribly irresponsible to ttc while unemployed, isn't it. But I wasn't getting younger or more fertile, I had been referred to uclh fertility clinic. I conceived 10 days after I was made redundant. I am nearly 8 weeks pregnant and interviewing frantically, hoping to secure a few months of work before I go on maternity leave. I plan to work after baby so my new role needs to be able to pay for childcare too.

Dh says we would never have conceived if I wasn't off work. I don't know about that but I do know that I have been trying for years and nothing ever happened. This is my last chance to be a mother possibly. Dh is getting a vasectomy after this as we don't plan on anymore (dont want to go through the whole ttc heartbreak), so there are times I feel sad that my only pregnancy would be one where I feel stressed about jobs. But the point is you don't know anyone's story. Most people would probably say I am very irresponsible but I don't care as my child is a miracle. Not sure why some woman's third child is any different.

Show quote history

Not sure why some woman's third child is any different.

Because she already has two children?

For the record, I'm totally against the two child benefit cap, but I don't think it's reasonable to compare the desperation for a first child with the desperation for a third child (which you can't afford).

MushMonster · 04/12/2024 18:17

When I see these threads or hear any comments on RL, I have to wonder, where are all these people living in luxury on benefits?
I do not know anyone. Most people I know work their socks off to make ends meet, are okdish financially as good jobs or are on benefits due to severe health issues. I do not know anyone who lives off their children.
I did meet once a long long time ago, someone who had a beautiful council house, beautifully decorated and appeared to have a good life, with children, on benefits. But then, it was a woman escaping severe domestic violence, in full time training (paid) and now works full time and got a mortgage.

Now, of course I want people who misuses money meant to be used to feed, clothe and raise children in trouble for it. But I do not see them.....

Choobakka · 04/12/2024 18:17

There are plenty of bone idle parasitic rich people as well.

IVFmumoftwo · 04/12/2024 18:17

I presume the benefit cap will stay though?

Didshejustsaythatoutloud · 04/12/2024 18:18

ThatSchoolOfficeLady · 04/12/2024 16:36

Huh?

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Snp are in charge! Swinney is the fm.

Cableknitdreams · 04/12/2024 18:18

I don't understand why people bring out the "generations of families on benefits" when the widely-publicised, comprehensive, nationwide research by the Rowntree Foundation showed that there are precisely zero families in Britain with generations on benefits.

Cloxs · 04/12/2024 18:19

Can I just check - we are talking about approx £16 per week, for any additional child? …£16. A. Week?

Original poster
BearBuggy · 04/12/2024 18:19

SometimesCalmPerson · 04/12/2024 17:52

I doubt people would resent financial support for poor children quite as much if it didn’t have to be given to parents who often haven’t made their choices in the best interests of their children.

Give children free food, clothes, more early years education and childcare, even bedding if needed because of a third child in the family, but there’s no need for it to be given as free cash to parents.

This is it exactly. The reality is there is a huge issue with people being “entitled”
to benefits. If we had a stricter UC system without a ridiculously low AET, it would help.

The aim in housing, breakfast clubs etc is great and much needed. I just don’t believe handing extra cash to financially irresponsible people who chose not to work at other’s expensive is the solution.

OP posts:
IdgieThreadgoodeIsMyHeroine · 04/12/2024 18:21

albapunk · 04/12/2024 16:21

I've never understood why people fail to see that there IS many who absolutely relish being on benefits, and many children will not see the extra money as their parents will continue to use it to make poor choices.

I come from a very deprived Scottish town. The roots of poverty run far deeper than any money thrown at it would ever reach. Massive changes in attitude are required, generations of families on benefits needs to be stopped, I know MANY people who have 0 intentions of work and some how find loopholes. Including by having children.

I've been on benefits twice, it was utterly hellish and the hoops I jumped through were ridiculous just to receive a pittance.

We need a robust welfare state as anyone could fall on hard times, but we also need intervention to ensure we have people who want to grow and break these moulds.

Those in genuine need, should always get what they need and I don't think this is what tbe OP was talking about.

Show quote history

I've been on benefits twice, it was utterly hellish and the hoops I jumped through were ridiculous just to receive a pittance.

How is it that this was your experience of being on benefits, yet other people are able to 'relish' it?

Is there a significant difference between you and every other person on benefits?

I have never been on benefits: do I get to feel as superior towards you as you clearly feel towards those who you have decided 'relish' being on benefits?

XDownwiththissortofthingX · 04/12/2024 18:22

When I see these threads or hear any comments on RL, I have to wonder, where are all these people living in luxury on benefits?

Presumably the same mystery island all the millions of scroungers who waltzed into a Job Centre, claimed they couldn't work because of a "bad back", and without being scrutinised were immediately handed thousands of hard-working taxpayers Pounds went.

Ask the Mail/Express 😛