Some Trump supporters already feeling voter's remorse

[MsAmerica]

I wonder why, what particular thing made them change their minds, at this late date, after just a week.

Of course, it confirms my opinion of the stupidity of Trumpers, that they're so ignorant that they imagine you can change your vote after the fact.

'How To Change My Vote' Searches Spike in States Won By Donald Trump
Newsweek
https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-how-change-vote-election-day-1984939

The Most Infuriating Search Term Is Trending in States Trump Won
Donald Trump’s supporters suddenly seem a lot less sure of their decision.
New Republic
https://newrepublic.com/post/188357/donald-trump-search-term-change-vote

'How to Change My Vote' Google Searches Surge in Trump States After Election
The term was most searched in many red states won by Trump
International Business Times
https://www.ibtimes.com/how-change-my-vote-google-searches-surge-trump-states-after-election-3750885

Funny you say Trump won't be able to run again.....you think the constitution will stop that under Trump.

Hah! True. Well, technically, that is still the case at least...

Seriously, though - what should the Dems plan to do differently? Or is it a case of "well, we'll wait and see how Trump fucks up and then say 'I told you so', now vote for us so he can't do it again?" Or something different to that?

I think Biden has been a disaster to be honest, n, ..and then the fact is like Trump...too old for the job....no one should be president after the age of 65.

It's hard to say but my opinion is the Democrats won't be in power ever again.....they failed to stop MAGA movement.... nothing will stop what's coming....

The only thing that can change these outcomes is if people find a way to counter the massive flow of disinformation from platforms like X. Every lie and twisted mistruth is viewed literally billions of times and trickles down endlessly. And they won't.

And that's not even getting into the outright manipulation - Musk's PAC placed fake ads purporting to be from the Harris campaign.

https://www.npr.org/2024/10/30/g-s1-31042/elon-musk-kamala-harris-facebook

And Trump is placing a big Musk ally at the top of the FCC, so there's not much hope for reform going forward.

People might not be stupid or thick, but their lack of well-rounded sources of factual information leave them very open to manipulation, and frankly, it's a steamroller I don't see any way of stopping (or any particular will to stop it).

My honest guess is that he's fallen into a right wing disinformation ecosystem rather than it being about anything real. If you're curious, and want to have real understanding or a genuine conversation, ask politely if he'll share some of his social media feeds with you.

@dubsie

Id argue that Trump won because behind him he has Musk who happens to own Twitter (X). The lies and junk spread across this platform is not news but compared to the billion dollar media campaign run by the democrats managed to capture many more votes.

Yes, but what you've got wrong is that Musk didn't happen to own X. He bought it specifically so he could use it to manipulate information to help Trump.

And the man is such an admirable free speech absolutist

Right, so you genuinely think it's ALL about people following misinformation and don't think anything the Dems did or their approach might've been a problem in any way and they don't have to change anything themselves? So essentially "re-educate the US population to vote correctly." How do you propose they do that exactly? Do you think social media is going away?

The problem is, that's not what the polls are saying. Do you not think actually engaging with that and the problems the public say they are having on a grassroots level and trying to come up with alternative solutions to what Trump et al are offering might be a better way to start than just attempting to "re-educate" the public, who you've already assumed are 100% wrong?

I'm afraid I think this is exactly the kind of self-satisfied echo-chamber thinking that many on the supposedly "liberal left" have fallen into (which is pretty illiberal right now, and not all that left despite reds-under-the-bed Americans screaming "communist" at anyone with even slightly left of conservative views ) that got the Dems into this position in the first place. Along with the obvious ridiculousness of letting Biden carry on so long.

It's pretty patronising to make the assumption, as you have here, that another poster's relative has simply fallen iinto "a right wing disinformation ecosystem rather than it being about anything real."

How do you know that what bothers him "is not real?" Do you honestly not recognise that you are in an ecosystem of your own?

The dems can do plenty, but, no, I don't believe any changes in policy or candidate could, at this point, outrun the avalanche of manipulation and disinformation.

Yes, everyone is in some kind of ecosystem, but people who get their information from a broad range of sources, including those that value truth and fact, vote differently from those who don't. There is plenty of research and information emerging about this pattern (with men, particularly younger men, easily captured by algorithms that deliberately target them). If you're interested, it's easy to find.

And my comment about the pp's relative is based on my own experience with previously liberal men who are genuinely good, caring people. I'm American.

Yes I'd say that's accurate and I'd say that what follows wont be democratic and it won't have the platform like X to challenge it. But the democrats were powerless to stop it, what could they do. Should any media outlet be owned by an individual... especially one as powerful as X and how to you stop lies being told.

I think the battle for democracy has been lost and it's going to take more than politics to stop it...

Agreed, but how can you be sure that the Dems are "getting information from a broad range of sources" whereas Republican voters aren't? Or that Dems "value truth and fact" whereas Republicans don't? Isn't this assumption part of the problem?

Most people I know are in echo chambers of information either side politically and won't even look at things they consider "for the other side". And lots is omitted both ways which can amount to misinformation in favour of one political bias or another, and that's even with the mainstream press. Pretending it's only one side who is for "truth, fact and righteousness" is dangerous. EVERYONE thinks they are for that. Political tribalism is often akin to a quasi religious belief, it's not necessarily based on "truth and facts." There is a lack of trust that what is being provided IS "truth or fact". And this is a problem across the political spectrum, it's not just right wingers. In a way, that's what's led to the "anti MSM" crew who'll sometimes listen to anything, including relying on social media. MOST people don't look at original source material, although of course that's the best way to find out for sure, as there's just so much of it, that's what people rely on the press for.

What he has shown with his cabinet pics Is that we are now a plutocracy... No more representative republic or democracy.

I don't think it's helpful to call Trump voters thick.
The thing that gets me is that the man is so bloody unpleasant. Watching footage of his rallies, he comes across as a mean, spiteful, vindictive, childish individual. People surely see this, yet it doesn't seem to bother them. I know people aren't voting for personality, but crikey!

Yes he is. Also a rapist. Also indicted on numerous charges. He's awful. And yet STILL, people thought he was the less worse option than the Dems including some previous Dem voters, and many Dems stayed at home. The views of swing voters are always interesting. Personally, I would be looking at it from the angle of "What the HELL has gone wrong with the Dems that even TRUMP is seen by the public as overall a better option?"

FWIW, I think there's a big class issue here and a big listening issue. Do I think wealthy men like Trump/Musk etc are literally "in touch" with the average voter? No. Esp not when Trump has a history of failing to pay his workers/contractors. Do I think they are MORE in touch with what bothers voters than the Dems and are happy to say so so that people feel they're actually being heard? I'm afraid so, yes. And I think that's certainly the perception. It's not helped by people handwaving and saying things like "oh, well obviously, those silly people concerned about things that aren't 'real" so we can just ignore them." If you're not talking to them, you don't know that. There may be blind spots on the ground that those who are so sure their "issues" are manufactured by social media are not aware of.

I think people like Donald because of how financially successful he is.

He gives people something to aspire to.

It's because he says things that people want to hear.

You don't like immigrants?! I'll get rid off the immigrants!

You want more money?! I'll give ya more money!

It's not difficult.

He’s not been financially successful - so many of his businesses have gone bust and he’s been found guilty of other crimes.
Trump is scheduled to appear in a New York courtroom on November 26 to receive a sentence for his conviction earlier this year on 34 counts of falsifying business records to cover up a hush money payment made during the 2016 campaign to adult-film star Stormy Daniels, who alleged a prior affair with the president-elect.

Yeah, he's not financially successful, tbf. He's more some people's idea of what financially successful looks like.

I didn't say that Dems are necessarily getting information from a broad range of sources. I did say that people who get their information from a broad range of sources are more likely to vote for Democrats (there have been several studies on this recently).

Facts are, and still remain, facts. They're not subjective, belief isn't fact, and this isn't tribalism. We're no longer talking about political bias in the same way we've traditionally analysed media coverage. This is about a colossus dedicated to pushing out a constant fact-free narrative.

There's a difference between things being omitted, which can be bad and affects both sides to some extent - i.e. If you were to only watch Fox News as your sole source of information, you would have literally no idea that General John Kelly, Trump's former chief of staff, said that Trump had praised Hitler and that he believed Trump fit the definition of a fascist. I'm sure there are things that could fit into that framework on the other side if your only source of news was MSNBC.

But that doesn't touch the deliberate dissemination of outright falsehoods and lies. I don't know how much time you've spent on X in recent days, but it's a cesspool of lies and disinformation. One very small example: on election night, when Trump thought he was going to lose, he was sending out stuff on Truth Social that there was voter fraud going down in Philadelphia and the police had been called, forcing the Philly police to issue a rebuttal saying it wasn't true. Musk amplified Trump's statement (using the algorithms he's manipulated so his tweets are pushed out many more times than other people's), but never amplified the police response. So large numbers of people who don't get their news from a broad range of sources, or who don't fact check their information, have no idea this was a false claim with no apparent basis. Had Trump lost the election, they were being primed to believe it was fraud. Multiply situations like this times a million, and that's what's happening over and over.

I do agree that the far left is also distrustful of mainstream media and often aligns with the far right.

I'm not sure if you're American (I am but live in the UK), but I suspect if you're not, you don't really fully understand the extent of the problem.

I understand what 'facts' are, thanks!

However, I don't agree that the evidence makes clear Dems are inherently more truthful and that this win is solely about "lies" from the other side. And please stop patronising me (and others). We may understand more than you think. And be a lot more educated, international and aware than you clearly assume also.

You seem to me to be in denial about some of what happened here. Yes, social media is a huge factor. But this hasn't happened JUST because of social media, and if you think it is, you are going to have the same thing happening again and again without actually ever learning anything about what went wrong. Social media magnifies EXISTING divisions. The right aren't the only people with access to social media (yes, obviously Musk, an ex Dem was a huge factor this time), but there is a HUGE Dem-supporting social media presence AND large, very establishment media presence and it won't only be the right being influential on social media in the future. The Dems handed a lot of this to Trump on a plate, which of course he grabbed with relish. They need to look at THAT, to reconnect with their former voter base, those they want to come back over to them. Not "re-educate" them, not be more authoritarian, not tell them how stupid and dumb and easily led and poorly educated you think they are and why you think they are wrong and you are naturally correct and don't need to question anything the Dems did. It will not help and it will not change anything.but please, go ahead if you want the same thing to happen over and over. Meanwhile, some of us (still here on the left) will be busy trying to prevent the same thing happening over here with Reform, which will have got a big boost from the Trump win.

Cool. A lot of people don't though, which is what I thought we were discussing.

That's fine, but it is frustrating to watch.It's been a whole eight years since the last time, and I'm not sure many of the lessons have been learned STILL. We need to look at everything and watch out for blind spots. Which is why I think the Dems need to do some self-reflection here, not just blame it all on outside factors. Trump is an opportunist. It's best not to blithely give him opportunities in the first place.

Apparently his approval ratings have fallen since he confirmed that he wants to use the military in mass deportations.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-news-cabinet-picks-live-updates-b2649022.html

I thought that's what people voted for.

Lol! I totally agree, @YourAzureEagle. I'm not sure which is worse - the idea that they voted unthinkingly and now are re-considering, or the idea that they apparently have no idea of how voting works.

Yes, plenty of pensioners, students and farmers regretting their votes.