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Politics

Anyone feeling slightly uncomfortable with the scale of the sentencing after the riots?

362 replies

TiredWife · 14/08/2024 17:51

Firstly, in no way do I support the disgusting, racist behaviour we've seen over the last couple of weeks, and I fully believe the major perpetrators need to be found and punished.

Given his background Starmer has obviously been able to pull lots of strings to process a huge volume of offenders through the courts, and there is clearly a directive to name and shame in the media to send the clear message that this sort of behaviour will not be tolerated. All good, and in the past I would have been firmly in support of this.

However there's something about the scale and speed of the court response which is making me uncomfortable. It feels as if they are highlighting specific cases to 'send a message' and it doesn't seem consistent with how the police and courts have handled previous similar cases.

So for instance an 18 year old has just been sentenced to 26 weeks in a young offender institution for 'possession of a bladed article in a public place'. I live near a London suburb and I reckon about a third of men out on the streets on a Saturday night would fall foul of this! But the police seem reluctant to stop them, let alone charge them?

Similarly the 53 year old woman, first offender, jailed for 15 months over Facebook hate post. Again, I don't condone what she did, but when you look at all the hate that women get online, or the death threats sent to JKR or MPs, there are few instances of people being jailed in the same way?

Justice needs to be applied fairly and consistently, across all groups, but this feels like a response at a level which cannot be maintained/applied across the board? Is that fair?

OP posts:
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AugustAlready · 14/08/2024 18:58

pipindressup · 14/08/2024 18:04

It sends out a nice clear message that this kind of behaviour will not be tolerated.
To be honest I have been impressed by this.
They got what they deserved.
Where they got the prison space I do not know.

Oh they've put some middle aged woman in for posting on Facebook, they've let out some yob terrorising little old ladies/b&e/stalking some young girl

heros aren't they!

Dorisbonson · 14/08/2024 18:58

Not supported the riots. Didn't vote for Reform (didn't vote). I don't support immigration levels we currently have (eg 5 times higher than France and Germany). Married to Eastern European.

I'm unhappy at the police inability to respond to knife crime, shoplifting and moped/phone theft which appear to have been effectively decriminalized. Whilst law and order needs to be maintained, it's hard to respect a government which rapidly mobilises police response for one type of crime but not another.

It's been fine for Wes Streeting to say the NHS is broken but would like a similar attitude to courts and policing which appears ineffective.

Dorisbonson · 14/08/2024 19:00

tissueboxandcandles · 14/08/2024 18:21

I understood that is impossible to arrest the vast majority of paedophiles because there are no prison cells to put them in.

Chemical castration? Think it's given to prostrate cancer sufferers as a treatment.

baroqueandblue · 14/08/2024 19:00

Noname99 · 14/08/2024 18:05

It’s fucking outrageous. A 13 year old girl and two 12 year old boys have been charged but all the fawning labour supporters on here are defending it because their lord and master can do no wrong. It’s absolutely horrifying

I've stopped short of defending it myself. If they had charged the parents too, then I could get completely on board.

EmeraldRoulette · 14/08/2024 19:02

@Dorisbonson ”Whilst law and order needs to be maintained, it's hard to respect a government which rapidly mobilises police response for one type of crime but not another.”

rioting shuts down everything quite quickly. What would you have done to curb it?

DiscoBeat · 14/08/2024 19:02

I think it's brilliant to show zero tolerance to such disgusting and unacceptable behaviour. And yes I applaud the strong message to others.

krustykittens · 14/08/2024 19:02

westisbest1982 · 14/08/2024 18:51

No, it isn’t. In the case of the moron who was sentenced today at Chester Crown court to 15 months after pleading guilty to sending communications threatening death or serious harm, she wrote on Facebook “It’s absolutely ridiculous. Don’t protect the mosque. Blow the mosque up with the adults in it."

Apparently her husband, who she cared for, wrote a ‘heartrending ’ letter to the judge. Well, boo fucking hoo.

How would you have dealt with this person?

This is incitement to kill and is very serious. If people go online to whip up more hatred and violence during riots they should rightly be punished harshly. Too many key board warrior out there, from all walks of life.

BubblePerm · 14/08/2024 19:02

The children involved are unlikely to go to prison, but will get much needed social services involvement, interventions and the spotlight put on how they have been parented. It will help them in the long run.

Prawncow · 14/08/2024 19:06

This whole thing could be framed as ‘people stunned that their actions have consequences.’ If you take part in mob violence what do you think will happen?

Thewildthingsarewithme · 14/08/2024 19:06

If I don’t use a yard stick I think great sends a nice clear message. If I compare it to the sentences handed down for rape, possession of child sexual abuse images and domestic battery I just feel furious, tells us all we need to know about the importance of women and children in our society

Dorisbonson · 14/08/2024 19:07

EmeraldRoulette · 14/08/2024 19:02

@Dorisbonson ”Whilst law and order needs to be maintained, it's hard to respect a government which rapidly mobilises police response for one type of crime but not another.”

rioting shuts down everything quite quickly. What would you have done to curb it?

I don't think I would have done much differently for the maintenance of public order (perhaps water cannon but I'm not am expert on the science and impact).

My main point is I am keen to see similarly effective policing for other crimes and application of similar levels of resource for other crimes such as the ones mentioned by others.

otnot · 14/08/2024 19:08

Starmer is only new so it's not really fair to blame him for the ridiculously lenient sentences that have been handed out over the past few years (though we can of course blame him for releasing a load of violent criminals in order to lock this lot up.) It will be very interesting to see if he continues this tough on crime approach, especially when it comes to gangs or attacks against women or children. I certainly hope so, not least because I think it will cause an awful lot of anger if he goes back to letting rapists and paedophiles walk free. But I suppose he'll just lock up anyone who complains about that too, so it's probably not much of a concern for him.

It is feeling a bit Chinese, Russian etc where dissenters are packed off to 're-education camps', but to be frank I think an awful lot of people who very much like the idea of that - presumably so long as it's not them or theirs being targeted. And maybe that is the best way to build a peaceful, prosperous nation; we're very wedded in the west to the idea of free speech but there are other ways to build a society and maybe it's worth trying? Personally, I'd prefer to see him talking about addressing people's grievances and moving people away from the extremes with positive change rather than locking them up, but I'm not sure that's likely.

feellikeanalien · 14/08/2024 19:08

I don't disagree with the sentencing. As others have said it was the same in 2011. I just wonder when all those men who make death and rape threats to women online are going to be arrested and charged.

Fiorentina9 · 14/08/2024 19:09

I find it weird how the Left are suddenly so keen on imprisoning people, even children, when for years they were insisting that the prison system doesn't work.

FumingTRex · 14/08/2024 19:10

I completely disagree with you OP. The woman on Facebook that you mention. She was encouraging people in her local community to blow up a mosque had already been attacked by rioters. How do you think the people attending thst mosque felt? They are probably still scared to go there . she absolutely deserved it.

As for the 12 and 13 year olds, a conviction might get them the help they need before they stuff up their entire lives.

Fiorentina9 · 14/08/2024 19:11

DadJoke · 14/08/2024 18:08

Those who have been sentenced pled guilty. 70% had previous convictions, some of them for multiple crimes. There sentences pale in comparison with the Just Stop Oil protestors. High sentences for organising and participating in hate-fuelled violent riots is good public policy.

We'll see what happens in those cases which go to trial.

But many of the Just Stop Oil protestors waited years before their sentences were given.

johnson39 · 14/08/2024 19:11

GoTigers · 14/08/2024 18:06

I think the government have played an absolute blinder.

Minimal police reaction to the riots, get the bastards nicked, charged and in court ASAP. Name and shame them, release their deserved sentences and watch their mates crawl back to their sewers.

Very well handled.

I couldn't agree more ! Well said 😊 will make people think twice before doing it again.

SnapdragonToadflax · 14/08/2024 19:13

They are sending a message, to stop people rioting. These sentences act as a deterrent to people who either weren't caught and fancy doing it again, or think it looked fun and were planning to have a go themselves.

The sentences are high because there's so much at stake. The government can't have rioting like that becoming the norm.

I don't generally agree with long prison sentences for minor crimes, but in the wider context these needed to be punitive. And it seems to have worked...

Prawncow · 14/08/2024 19:15

It’s so mad to see people posting about ‘the left’ wanting these sentences. Find me a Conservative who wants rioters sent home with a pat on the head! These people set fire to private property, threw missiles at the police and caused chaos.

The only people making sympathetic noises are populist idiots who seem to think that it’s not rioting if they agree with the cause!

Fiorentina9 · 14/08/2024 19:18

If people are going to prison for Facebook posts, I wonder how many years the pro-Palestine supporters got who displayed blatantly anti-semitic placards, and how swiftly they were sentenced.

HappydaysArehere · 14/08/2024 19:21

AgnesX · 14/08/2024 18:04

Not remotely, serves them right. Hopefully it'll put the skids under some of the malicious shite spouted on social media and the other idiots that think participating in a riot is clever.

Edited

Agree with this. It was absolutely necessary to stop this terrible thuggery in its tracks. It was shock tactics. Starmer said they would be met with the full force of the law and this is what has happened. Anarchy cannot be compared with other lesser crimes and the subsequent sentences.

Spirallingdownwards · 14/08/2024 19:22

No completely comfortable that they are getting what they deserve and swiftly!

Fiorentina9 · 14/08/2024 19:22

SnapdragonToadflax · 14/08/2024 19:13

They are sending a message, to stop people rioting. These sentences act as a deterrent to people who either weren't caught and fancy doing it again, or think it looked fun and were planning to have a go themselves.

The sentences are high because there's so much at stake. The government can't have rioting like that becoming the norm.

I don't generally agree with long prison sentences for minor crimes, but in the wider context these needed to be punitive. And it seems to have worked...

It's not the fact that the rioters are being deservedly punished. The problem is the double standards. It would be fine if the PM also referred to "Left-wing thugs" during the anti-semitic marches in London that terrorised Jews on their own streets. Or "Islamist thugs" for those committing Islamic State attacks. Have you ever heard a Labour MP use phrases like this?