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Politics

Anyone feeling slightly uncomfortable with the scale of the sentencing after the riots?

362 replies

TiredWife · 14/08/2024 17:51

Firstly, in no way do I support the disgusting, racist behaviour we've seen over the last couple of weeks, and I fully believe the major perpetrators need to be found and punished.

Given his background Starmer has obviously been able to pull lots of strings to process a huge volume of offenders through the courts, and there is clearly a directive to name and shame in the media to send the clear message that this sort of behaviour will not be tolerated. All good, and in the past I would have been firmly in support of this.

However there's something about the scale and speed of the court response which is making me uncomfortable. It feels as if they are highlighting specific cases to 'send a message' and it doesn't seem consistent with how the police and courts have handled previous similar cases.

So for instance an 18 year old has just been sentenced to 26 weeks in a young offender institution for 'possession of a bladed article in a public place'. I live near a London suburb and I reckon about a third of men out on the streets on a Saturday night would fall foul of this! But the police seem reluctant to stop them, let alone charge them?

Similarly the 53 year old woman, first offender, jailed for 15 months over Facebook hate post. Again, I don't condone what she did, but when you look at all the hate that women get online, or the death threats sent to JKR or MPs, there are few instances of people being jailed in the same way?

Justice needs to be applied fairly and consistently, across all groups, but this feels like a response at a level which cannot be maintained/applied across the board? Is that fair?

OP posts:
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Iforgotagain · 14/08/2024 18:17

I don't disagree with the sentencing but it seems insane to me that people can kill people (manslaughter) and walk free, like drunk drivers (killed my SIL) or the man who punched and killed his sister, how can that not be deserving of a custodiaI sentence? I really feel that victims of violent crimes are massively failed by our justice system, especially crimes against women and children.

LiterallyOnFire · 14/08/2024 18:17

The message is, and should be, clear. If you act like a racist thuggish lout then there will be consequences. Looting, abusing people, damaging property, inciting violence and all the other delightful actions these 'protesters' took part in are not acceptable.

If only we could be just as harsh to sex offenders and violent misogynists.

It shows what is possible when there is a will to come down hard.

LilacQuoter · 14/08/2024 18:18

Noname99 · 14/08/2024 18:05

It’s fucking outrageous. A 13 year old girl and two 12 year old boys have been charged but all the fawning labour supporters on here are defending it because their lord and master can do no wrong. It’s absolutely horrifying

The 12 year old was throwing missiles at the police and the 13 year old girl was punching and kicking the entrance to a hotel housing asylum seekers - you think they should be allowed to do those things without any punishment?

KeirSpoutsTwaddle · 14/08/2024 18:18

It’s an effective way of stopping civil disorder.
I approve of that.

However, slow and continuous civil disorder is underway in the abuse of women and children. We see an epidemic of images of child sexual abuse, domestic violence and organised child abuse. Oh and online harassment.

I would like to see a crackdown on that.

Sirzy · 14/08/2024 18:19

Noname99 · 14/08/2024 18:05

It’s fucking outrageous. A 13 year old girl and two 12 year old boys have been charged but all the fawning labour supporters on here are defending it because their lord and master can do no wrong. It’s absolutely horrifying

Which part of launching things at the police should they get away with then?

AzureBlue99 · 14/08/2024 18:19

I agree that some of the sentencing is harsh, although I am enjoying the idiots get their comeuppance. But suddenly we have prison cells galore. A few weeks ago they were only one cell away from HM Prisons being completely full. Feeling this government is going to be a bit economic with the truth like the last one. Can't go from chock full to plenty of room at the inn in a week.

It would be good if the harsh sentences were meted out to all violent crime. They had to do all this. There was a real danger of civil unrest. These sentences are deterring a repeat for the ones who have more than one brain cell.

Wishitsnows · 14/08/2024 18:20

It shows that they can put on night courts and get things processed incredibly quickly. It would be great if they could do the same for rape cases for example instead of leaving victims waiting years for their case to be heard in court.

AgnesX · 14/08/2024 18:20

Noname99 · 14/08/2024 18:05

It’s fucking outrageous. A 13 year old girl and two 12 year old boys have been charged but all the fawning labour supporters on here are defending it because their lord and master can do no wrong. It’s absolutely horrifying

Awwww. What would you like, a slap on the wrist and told not to be naughty. They're old enough to know right from wrong.

And I thought was a bleeding heart liberal. 🙄

tissueboxandcandles · 14/08/2024 18:21

I understood that is impossible to arrest the vast majority of paedophiles because there are no prison cells to put them in.

bitesthedust · 14/08/2024 18:21

Noname99 · 14/08/2024 18:05

It’s fucking outrageous. A 13 year old girl and two 12 year old boys have been charged but all the fawning labour supporters on here are defending it because their lord and master can do no wrong. It’s absolutely horrifying

Last time I checked Stammer was not sentencing himself?

Do you think he is choosing these sentences?

TiredWife · 14/08/2024 18:22

LiterallyOnFire · 14/08/2024 18:17

The message is, and should be, clear. If you act like a racist thuggish lout then there will be consequences. Looting, abusing people, damaging property, inciting violence and all the other delightful actions these 'protesters' took part in are not acceptable.

If only we could be just as harsh to sex offenders and violent misogynists.

It shows what is possible when there is a will to come down hard.

I think maybe this is the point I was trying to make. Sex offenders and violent men seem to walk away with minimum sentences compared with 15 months for a social media post?

I'd like this sort of justice to be served across the board, but of course it won't be.

OP posts:
Margo2023 · 14/08/2024 18:22

I disagree, we have been so soft for so long, I'm pleased that the process and sentencing has been sped up and increased. Good riddance to them.

tissueboxandcandles · 14/08/2024 18:23

KeirSpoutsTwaddle · 14/08/2024 18:18

It’s an effective way of stopping civil disorder.
I approve of that.

However, slow and continuous civil disorder is underway in the abuse of women and children. We see an epidemic of images of child sexual abuse, domestic violence and organised child abuse. Oh and online harassment.

I would like to see a crackdown on that.

Yes but apparently these things are less serious/ no court availability/ no room in the jails...

Potsnpotz · 14/08/2024 18:23

yes Op, I note you said you weren’t around in 2011 but it’s similar to what happened in 2011 or possibly the sentences are even less than what was given out then!

So I hope anyone who was around back then and opposes the length of these sentences opposed the 2011 sentencing too.

And I was in London in 2011 and while I was worried about the riots, it wasn’t the same hatefulness behind it and while yes shops were looted and buildings destroyed etc, it didn’t have the same venom, bigotry and hate behind it so if anything they should come down on this lot much worse.

LightSpeeds · 14/08/2024 18:23

Not uncomfortable at all about it. It's what's needed as 'law and order' has gone to complete shite in this country.

I'm sure it's why the rioting seems to have stopped - it's not quite so tempting to have a good night out chucking bricks when it could land you in the clink for 2 years!

Mischance · 14/08/2024 18:24

Peaceful demonstration is an important plank of democracy. The sort of behaviour we saw from these rioters is not something that can be tolerated, and open racist stirring is illegal.

So - no I am not worried by the sentences - they reflect the current laws of the land and that is how it should be.

The relative leniency of some pother sentences is a matter for a change in the law in those areas and not a good reason to not apply the law to these rioters.

Margo2023 · 14/08/2024 18:25

@Noname99 but if they have participated in a criminal act, why do you have a problem with them being charged? There is an age of criminal responsibility and in England it is 10. Often, it's these young thugs that get away with their crimes who go on to more severe criminal activity in later life. Why wouldn't they, if there are no consequences to their actions?

Prawncow · 14/08/2024 18:26

Those are exactly the kind of sentences that are appropriate for rioters. This is what happens if you decide to join in with large scale public disorder.

As for the 13 year old girl

A 13-year-old girl has been convicted of violent disorder following unrest outside a hotel housing asylum seekers during the riots.
She pleaded guilty to the charge after she was seen punching and kicking the entrance of a Hotel during a protest in Hampshire, on 31 July.

You think it’s inappropriate that she’s been charged? Really???

EmeraldRoulette · 14/08/2024 18:26

@TiredWife much discussed on other threads but the 2011 riots were treated the same

there’s a reason for that

re the Facebook post, do you not see that as incitement? What sentence would you think was fairer, given the clarity of the comment?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz6x105wgz5o

HelpMeGetThrough · 14/08/2024 18:26

It’s fucking outrageous. A 13 year old girl and two 12 year old boys have been charged

What's the alternative, "gentle parenting"?

bitesthedust · 14/08/2024 18:27

1- if it wasn’t for the quick action from govmt and the sentencing, we would have seen riots once again after the Trafalgar Square stabbing

2 - if quick action and the current sentencing did not take place, people would also complain about lack of govmt initiative

3 - I want to see Nigel F, Andrew T, T Robinsin and Elon M answering and getting sentences too - it is going to be huge disappointing if they don’t

4 - bring GBNews and Talk Radio into the conversation and sanction them too

Potsnpotz · 14/08/2024 18:28

TiredWife · 14/08/2024 18:22

I think maybe this is the point I was trying to make. Sex offenders and violent men seem to walk away with minimum sentences compared with 15 months for a social media post?

I'd like this sort of justice to be served across the board, but of course it won't be.

The sentence are higher because it’s part of deterring more riots. I do wish they did have higher sentence for rapists and murderers too, but these situations are looked at differently when the country looks like it’s at risk of tipping into full scale chaos and disorder.

If this was just a lone racist thug setting a bin on fire or trying to loot a corner shop, they probably wouldn’t have got even a custodial sentence. It’s the being part of wider civil disorder that is linked to these higher sentences.

Back in 2011 I recall someone was jailed for stealing water or something daft like that. It wasn’t because of the act of stealing something that was worth a few quid, but because it was done as a part of the riot! Very unlucky for the person who was jailed for doing that though! And I know a guy jailed for 6 months for stealing baby clothes during the 2011 riots. Really decent guy otherwise but he messed up and paid a high price.

BreadInCaptivity · 14/08/2024 18:29

GoTigers · 14/08/2024 18:06

I think the government have played an absolute blinder.

Minimal police reaction to the riots, get the bastards nicked, charged and in court ASAP. Name and shame them, release their deserved sentences and watch their mates crawl back to their sewers.

Very well handled.

I agree.

The alternative was a drawn out process where via SM the rioters kept targeting new locations.

Not so smug now are they?

caringcarer · 14/08/2024 18:29

EllenLRipley · 14/08/2024 18:08

There are extensive threads comparing specific judges sentencing on these crimes vs child rape/abuse/DV/Images of child abuse (many where recent immigrants have committed the crimes) and it is very shocking and will fuel ill feeling in areas that have already ensuring grooming scandals etc like Oldham/Rochdale.

I agree. I think all crimes should receive fair prison time. I do think longer prison sentences deter crime but I daresay they will be let out after only serving half their sentence which always seems bonkers to me if a judge has applied a tariff it should stand with no early releases. We should build more prisons.

LilacQuoter · 14/08/2024 18:29

Agree with everyone mentioning the 2011 riots - I remember headlines like '6 months for stealing bottled water' and things like that.