Anyone feeling slightly uncomfortable with the scale of the sentencing after the riots?

[TiredWife]

Firstly, in no way do I support the disgusting, racist behaviour we've seen over the last couple of weeks, and I fully believe the major perpetrators need to be found and punished.

Given his background Starmer has obviously been able to pull lots of strings to process a huge volume of offenders through the courts, and there is clearly a directive to name and shame in the media to send the clear message that this sort of behaviour will not be tolerated. All good, and in the past I would have been firmly in support of this.

However there's something about the scale and speed of the court response which is making me uncomfortable. It feels as if they are highlighting specific cases to 'send a message' and it doesn't seem consistent with how the police and courts have handled previous similar cases.

So for instance an 18 year old has just been sentenced to 26 weeks in a young offender institution for 'possession of a bladed article in a public place'. I live near a London suburb and I reckon about a third of men out on the streets on a Saturday night would fall foul of this! But the police seem reluctant to stop them, let alone charge them?

Similarly the 53 year old woman, first offender, jailed for 15 months over Facebook hate post. Again, I don't condone what she did, but when you look at all the hate that women get online, or the death threats sent to JKR or MPs, there are few instances of people being jailed in the same way?

Justice needs to be applied fairly and consistently, across all groups, but this feels like a response at a level which cannot be maintained/applied across the board? Is that fair?

Have they though?
Or is it just faster because the evidence is very easily available. It’s on body worn footage and social media, and the offenders were actually arrested at the scene.
CPS can make fast decisions to charge, offenders plead guilty and it will only require Magistrates not Crown Court.

Has anyone seen the report of the 2 men jailed in past few days? Plymouth court I think?

The judge was bloody brilliant.

The defendants went on about "the immigrants" costing the taxpayer.

So he highlighted all their previous (think one had about 39 convictions and had spent about 10 years in and out of prison). Their previous was burglary, setting fire to cars, damage to property etc as well as affray type crimes.

He asked them how much they thought they'd cost the taxpayer 😂

I wish I'd seen their reaction!

Consistency is needed as it will breed resentment.

Rioting is always treated differently, as it should be.

Look if they hadn’t cracked down fast and tough like this, these rioters would still be at it. Is that what you want? This kind of destructive movement cannot be allowed to gain momentum. The politicians and judiciary have no choice and don’t question it.

This is the bit that makes me feel uncomfortable too. Why the difference?

Society just doesn't value the safety of women and children the way it values peace on the streets.

Look at the predictions for Huw Edwards' sentencing. Not hands on offences, but we all know that men like him create the market for RL child abuse. Yet we just slap wrists.

Yes, there's been a spate of kids kicking doors in my neighborhood, lots of elderly victims, captured on ring door bells. Police not interested.
I actually think the parents of child criminals should be charged, they are the ones dragging these kids up. Children brought up in loving homes with boundaries don't behave like this. Same goes for the parents of the 'child' who killed those little girls. Maybe if we start holding parents responsible they'll start parenting their kids.

There are extensive threads comparing specific judges sentencing on these crimes vs child rape/abuse/DV/Images of child abuse (many where recent immigrants have committed the crimes) and it is very shocking and will fuel ill feeling in areas that have already ensuring grooming scandals etc like Oldham/Rochdale.

@EllenLRipley anyone comparing these to Oldham/Rochdale is nothing but a racist. This is a specific set of circumstances ie. Riot and widespread disorder so the comparison would be 2011 riots if anything. They’re deliberately comparing apples and oranges.

The vast majority of child sexual abuse does not get committed in Oldham and is not committed within grooming gangs so why the constant fascination with these particular sets of scandal? There was a massive disgusting white grooming gang jailed in Scotland a year or so ago and I barely hear anyone go on about that.

There is a wide scale problem of men (and some women ) of ALL races and nationalities abusing women and children and getting away with it. It’s been happening in children’s foster homes, residential schools, sports clubs , churches and most of all in family homes. For so many years plenty of fathers uncles, priests and scout leaders have been evading justice with institutions protecting them - which is vile, so why not address the whole wider problem?

Why would they point out the “Asian grooming gang” sentences only as a point of comparison ?

Plenty of white men - who are committing about 85% of the CSA in the UK get off lightly with child sex abuse. In fact criminal justice system stats show white men in general receive more lenient punishments in the criminal justice system compared to Asian and Black men who have committed similar crimes.

Are they going to riot about that and ask for white men to be punished more equally compared to other races ie. More Harshly? Hmm doubt it!

I mean I'm all for what's said on the net staying on the net, but she made a direct bomb threat so it seems like minimal sentence.

We can all make mistakes, you can get 2 year for serious injury by careless driving or be pressured into carrying a blade etc.

What these rioters have shown is hatred towards their fellow humans, in my eyes its worse than drugs offences etc they should be all getting life until they prove they have changed.

Exactly, I don’t know why some people are deliberately ignoring this. Wilful ignorance or lack of understanding?

Again I hope if they “object” to these sentences and point out a lack of “consistency” they said the same in 2011!

True but if you can charge one child, you can charge another who actually caused harm.

"A long-delayed sentence that is eventually wrung out of a terminally blocked and slothful system seems much less intuitively linked to an individual's behaviour, much more like a random bureaucratic imposition"

Are you referring to the trial process?

The rioters by and large have pleaded guilty which meant that they could be sentenced swiftly.

We have seen existing sentencing guidelines - none of which have been altered since Labour came into government.

Maybe it's the previous administration that you should be looking at for the terrible state of our justice system - the backlogs in court cases, the lack of appropriately qualified barristers for rape and sexual assault cases & the lack of prison spaces.

I think the sentences are definitely a big deterrent. I think we could have seen many more ‘protests’ if the arrests and charges had taken longer. In my area the planned demo later in the week did not go ahead thankfully.

I remember the sentencing during the 2011 riots and being shocked at the time. People who were just passing by and joined in the opportunistic looting by helping themselves to a few things were locked up. I expected it to be similar this time.

I will say I feel slightly sorry for some of the individuals who were older and had never been in trouble before or the woman who led a quiet life and was a carer for her husband and wrote something on social media. The judge’s remarks are helpful in explaining why the sentences have been given. In all I support the harsher sentencing.

Do you have a link please?

I wish all these court hearings could be on TV in full

I think it's disproportionate to sentencing for other crimes.

I understand it is designed to discourage others but it feels out of balance.

Did you have the same opinion of the Tory government’s response to the 2011 riots? The number of cases and the sentencing were similar to now, and the Tory government was still fairly new (they’d been elected in the 2010 general election) - were they ‘making a point’ as well?

Do you think teenagers should be exempt?

No, it isn’t. In the case of the moron who was sentenced today at Chester Crown court to 15 months after pleading guilty to sending communications threatening death or serious harm, she wrote on Facebook “It’s absolutely ridiculous. Don’t protect the mosque. Blow the mosque up with the adults in it."

Apparently her husband, who she cared for, wrote a ‘heartrending ’ letter to the judge. Well, boo fucking hoo.

How would you have dealt with this person?

This is my feeling too. I fully agree that harsh sentences are needed to deter the riots from starting up again but perhaps if we had harsher sentencing across the board, it would deter other crimes also.

When we have people arrested locally they are often in front of courts within days of it's easily proven.

Crown court with a jury where there can be reasonable doubt (for example there's no witnesses to a murder) will take longer as we have judicial process.

Nope. It's exactly what was needed. So pleased by the quick action.

@Noname99 I think you're getting a bit confused here...it's actually a much more 'virtue signalling left' view to give soft punishments and to consider all the mitigating factors of someone's circumstances when it comes to deciding sentences for committing crimes.

Anyway, the 13 year old girl was in court with both parents and has been bailed unconditionally, so for now isn't being 'swallowed up by the justice system' as you so dramatically put it. So they will likely consider her circumstances before she is actually sentenced.

Sending a strong direct message that Crime and racist behaviour will not be tolerated can only be a good thing

Naming and Shaming them on the news and in newspapers and jailing them is the main reason the riots stopped
So how is that a bad thing????

I don't bites them dust because I only saw a screenshot of the report. Hence why my exact details are scratchy!

I'll try and find a link though 🤞

I do wonder if the woman who started with the false information is feeling embarrassed?

@Noname99

I am not delighted that 12 and 13 year olds have been arrested, charged and convicted. I am horrified that they took part in the rioting and think they need to take the consequences for their actions.

They pled guilty to criminal offences and the law should take its course.
They will be given an appropriate sentence in an appropriate institution if that is required, they aren't being sent off to languish in adult prisons.
Hopefully they will learn a very harsh lesson and go on to lead a law abiding life.
I often see posts on here with people saying they would go 'nuclear' 'ballistic' , 'come down like a ton of bricks' and wonder what they actually mean.

What do you think is an appropriate punishment for these young people?