Anyone feeling slightly uncomfortable with the scale of the sentencing after the riots?

[TiredWife]

Firstly, in no way do I support the disgusting, racist behaviour we've seen over the last couple of weeks, and I fully believe the major perpetrators need to be found and punished.

Given his background Starmer has obviously been able to pull lots of strings to process a huge volume of offenders through the courts, and there is clearly a directive to name and shame in the media to send the clear message that this sort of behaviour will not be tolerated. All good, and in the past I would have been firmly in support of this.

However there's something about the scale and speed of the court response which is making me uncomfortable. It feels as if they are highlighting specific cases to 'send a message' and it doesn't seem consistent with how the police and courts have handled previous similar cases.

So for instance an 18 year old has just been sentenced to 26 weeks in a young offender institution for 'possession of a bladed article in a public place'. I live near a London suburb and I reckon about a third of men out on the streets on a Saturday night would fall foul of this! But the police seem reluctant to stop them, let alone charge them?

Similarly the 53 year old woman, first offender, jailed for 15 months over Facebook hate post. Again, I don't condone what she did, but when you look at all the hate that women get online, or the death threats sent to JKR or MPs, there are few instances of people being jailed in the same way?

Justice needs to be applied fairly and consistently, across all groups, but this feels like a response at a level which cannot be maintained/applied across the board? Is that fair?

This ^
The govt had to act quickly a harshly….right sentences for rioters imo.

No I don't feel uncomfortable at all. They deserve every second inside they get.

They're nothing but racist rioting-burn-their-own-towns-down twats.

The quick sentencing was only for people who pleaded guilty. A point that seems to be being forgotten.

It's a tricky one, I think that it's been good, and swift, but it's not consistent and therefore seems disproportionate. Yes they're clamping down hard, in this area, good, but the vast majority of 'other crime' and often nothing happens.

So at the moment, post something inflammatory on social media, prison, grope a woman on a train, nothing...

see I don't agree, either that the message is clear, or that the behaviour won't be tolerated. There's a thread running on MN atm about absolutely blatant, constant, shoplifting with nothing being done about it, ever, staff not even reacting, police not even attending let alone bringing cases to court.

So the message being sent is 'shoplifting is normally so accepted we won't even bother chasing you even if you steal alcohol worth £100 twice a week, every week, unless you do it in certain circumstances and then we will send you to prison for 18 months for stealing a sausage roll, having never stolen anything before.' It's completely inconsistent, confusing, and (although I'm hardly crying a river for anyone prosecuted), unfair.

The majority of people in the riots would have been identified via video evidence - either the shop owned cctv or individuals filming - both of which would be available in 'normal' shoplifting cases so there's no reason why the same can't be done.

No mention of how terrified the vulnerable people inside the hotel that she was attacking must have been.

"...we're very wedded in the west to the idea of free speech but there are other ways to build a society and maybe it's worth trying?..."
@otnot

Err...what the actual fuck?
No!
(It's been tried before, by the way.)

For those of you worried about the poor children you might like to read the following. They are most likely to end up with probation. They aren't being hauled off to prison.

https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/overarching-guides/magistrates-court/item/sentencing-children-and-young-people/

indeed

This!
And I wonder who they've let out early to accommodate the rioters!

No they got what they deserved. My 91 year old mother lives on those Southport streets. She is very distressed for the poor children killed and their families. Bins were set on fire, yobs were rampaging and neighbour’s car badly damaged. Poor Mum was terrified, luckily not alone. The criminals were taught some manners and hopefully will no be able to get reduced terms.

It's what happened in 2011. It's to deter people thinking rioting is in any way acceptable or minor. The potential impact of that sort of disruption spreading undeterred is scary.
The numpties caught on camera have obviously been advised a guilty plea is their best bet of the shortest possible sentence.

You do know that the director of public prosecutions at that time was Kier Starmer don’t you? That’s what he got his “sir” for

She was arrested so imagine she feels worse than embarrassed, quite rightly.

After the police incident at Manchester Airport we had some minor protest. That was due to irresponsible information sharing - not vastly different in principle to shouting fire in a theatre. The current protests similarly have similar causes and organisation stimulating the issue (though mostly just assholes who want to break the law).

If curbs to free speech involve online platforms stopping idiots talking garbage that would be welcome.

Previously newspapers would verify and fact check. They didn't need to compete with irresponsible viral bullshit on Facebook and TikTok. They may have printed bullshit but if it wasn't true there were mechanisms to hold them accountable and lawyers would advise on what could and couldn't be printed prior to publication. Online bullshitters can say what they want. That doesn't help public order. As a member of the public I prefer those people who chose to disseminate information to be accountable - that's not the case at the moment.

@TheNuthatch

Its been made very clear who will be released early.
No one convicted of a serious crime, and after serving at least 40% of their sentence as opposed to the current 50%.
It will be people serving short sentences for non violent offences

and probably a whole bunch of women inside for shop lifting when a non custodial sentence would have been better in the first place

The issue is that this level of action is probably not sustainable long term. I agree with it, but it does feel like a political move to prove a point

Maybe it will stop threads on here telling people to riot, there was a spate of them because of the cost of living a while back.

I'm very uncomfortable. Everyone deserves a fair trial. Are people being advised to plead guilty when that would result in an unfair outcome? Cleveland Police posted a vile tweet revelling in eat seems to be a very vulnerable man being sentenced to 26 months. One woman pleaded not guilty but is being held on remand like a dangerous offender until the beginning of September for the massive crime of buying eggs. She was accused of buying them to use in the riot - but what if the accusation isn't true?!

I definitely wouldn't be surprised if there were many miscarriages of justice in the political zeal to make an example of people, no doubt just like in 2011. That's not what the law is for.

What happened at these ‘protests’ was nothing to do with ‘free speech’. It was violent disorder and riot, and needed to be treated as such. To compare the sentencing with Russia and China’s ‘re-education camps’ is to make light of those countries’ human rights abuses. Give your head a wobble.

Not if it is inciting people to riot/violence/civil disturbance/is racist and targeting people. Do you not understand that SM was the reason this flared up so quickly when misinformation was posted?

Let's agree to disagree.
I don't believe for a minute that people went on a rampage because of whatever they read online, that is not the cause.
If you teach and control right thinking rather than encourage critical thinking you create a population that is receptive to indoctrination. Wherever it might come from.

Yabu

It feels like that because that’s exactly what it’s supposed to feel like. The political point being made, very deliberately and publicly, is that this government won’t stand for rioting and violent unrest.

Exactly.
About bloody time that there was a crackdown on these vicious oagpfs, they deserve everything thrown at them.
There’s been a far too soft approach for too long.