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Politics

Anyone feeling slightly uncomfortable with the scale of the sentencing after the riots?

362 replies

TiredWife · 14/08/2024 17:51

Firstly, in no way do I support the disgusting, racist behaviour we've seen over the last couple of weeks, and I fully believe the major perpetrators need to be found and punished.

Given his background Starmer has obviously been able to pull lots of strings to process a huge volume of offenders through the courts, and there is clearly a directive to name and shame in the media to send the clear message that this sort of behaviour will not be tolerated. All good, and in the past I would have been firmly in support of this.

However there's something about the scale and speed of the court response which is making me uncomfortable. It feels as if they are highlighting specific cases to 'send a message' and it doesn't seem consistent with how the police and courts have handled previous similar cases.

So for instance an 18 year old has just been sentenced to 26 weeks in a young offender institution for 'possession of a bladed article in a public place'. I live near a London suburb and I reckon about a third of men out on the streets on a Saturday night would fall foul of this! But the police seem reluctant to stop them, let alone charge them?

Similarly the 53 year old woman, first offender, jailed for 15 months over Facebook hate post. Again, I don't condone what she did, but when you look at all the hate that women get online, or the death threats sent to JKR or MPs, there are few instances of people being jailed in the same way?

Justice needs to be applied fairly and consistently, across all groups, but this feels like a response at a level which cannot be maintained/applied across the board? Is that fair?

OP posts:
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coldcallerbaiter · 14/08/2024 18:01

They need to send a message to all criminals and it should be a sliding scale of seriousness. For example women being harassed on public transport is in the news today. People clearing shelves in shops etc Why so soft? I think a lot is down to sitting ducks, filmed or witnessed and easily arrested.

Glitterbiscuits · 14/08/2024 18:01

I can see your point but I think 'sending a message' is probably a good idea.
No idea how they will squeeze people in the prisons though.

We absolutely cannot have the UK descending to the depths of racist ignorance, violence and vandalism we say in so many areas.

I'm white, I'm fine but you only had to look at Mumsnet to read of stories of others who were too scared to go to work. It was sickening.

If the prison sentences help people feel safer then that's fine with me.

JamSandle · 14/08/2024 18:02

I agree. It does seem too much considering how violence in other areas seems to just run rampant.

AgnesX · 14/08/2024 18:04

Not remotely, serves them right. Hopefully it'll put the skids under some of the malicious shite spouted on social media and the other idiots that think participating in a riot is clever.

Snacksgalore · 14/08/2024 18:04

It seems to inline with what happened after 2011 riots. I’m a supporte if Starmer but I don’t think anything that is happening here is unique.

pipindressup · 14/08/2024 18:04

It sends out a nice clear message that this kind of behaviour will not be tolerated.
To be honest I have been impressed by this.
They got what they deserved.
Where they got the prison space I do not know.

Hatty65 · 14/08/2024 18:05

Nope. Grateful that something serious has been done about racist thugs for once. No sympathy and I'm good with it.

Noname99 · 14/08/2024 18:05

It’s fucking outrageous. A 13 year old girl and two 12 year old boys have been charged but all the fawning labour supporters on here are defending it because their lord and master can do no wrong. It’s absolutely horrifying

GoTigers · 14/08/2024 18:06

I think the government have played an absolute blinder.

Minimal police reaction to the riots, get the bastards nicked, charged and in court ASAP. Name and shame them, release their deserved sentences and watch their mates crawl back to their sewers.

Very well handled.

LiterallyOnFire · 14/08/2024 18:06

GoTigers · 14/08/2024 18:06

I think the government have played an absolute blinder.

Minimal police reaction to the riots, get the bastards nicked, charged and in court ASAP. Name and shame them, release their deserved sentences and watch their mates crawl back to their sewers.

Very well handled.

Yes, but then you compare sentences to - say - those handed down for child sex abuse image offences and you have to wince a bit.

Flyhigher · 14/08/2024 18:07

It's the right thing to do.
They need a clear message.

EllenLRipley · 14/08/2024 18:08

There are extensive threads comparing specific judges sentencing on these crimes vs child rape/abuse/DV/Images of child abuse (many where recent immigrants have committed the crimes) and it is very shocking and will fuel ill feeling in areas that have already ensuring grooming scandals etc like Oldham/Rochdale.

DadJoke · 14/08/2024 18:08

Those who have been sentenced pled guilty. 70% had previous convictions, some of them for multiple crimes. There sentences pale in comparison with the Just Stop Oil protestors. High sentences for organising and participating in hate-fuelled violent riots is good public policy.

We'll see what happens in those cases which go to trial.

GoTigers · 14/08/2024 18:09

@LiterallyOnFire I CSA cases need longer sentences.

I don’t think the rioters deserved shorted sentences.

PickAChew · 14/08/2024 18:10

Noname99 · 14/08/2024 18:05

It’s fucking outrageous. A 13 year old girl and two 12 year old boys have been charged but all the fawning labour supporters on here are defending it because their lord and master can do no wrong. It’s absolutely horrifying

12 and 13 year old who get away with shit are highly likely to grow into adults doing the same shit.

LiterallyOnFire · 14/08/2024 18:10

GoTigers · 14/08/2024 18:09

@LiterallyOnFire I CSA cases need longer sentences.

I don’t think the rioters deserved shorted sentences.

Completely agree.

LilacQuoter · 14/08/2024 18:10

Nope - glad to see this has all been clamped down on fast and hard. If it makes you feel better its unlikely that all of them will serve full sentences.

Begsthequestion · 14/08/2024 18:11

I thought you could get 5 years for carrying a knife?

Also, do you remember the way the 2011 rioters were punished? 24/7 courts, jail time for stealing bottled water etc. This seems pretty similar.

magicmushrooms · 14/08/2024 18:13

No, I think this is long overdue and about time there were consequences to actions.

Yes, it is unfair as others have got away with it now, but if the police see that the people who carry knives will get dealt with maybe they will start stopping and charging people.

InfoSecInTheCity · 14/08/2024 18:14

GoTigers · 14/08/2024 18:09

@LiterallyOnFire I CSA cases need longer sentences.

I don’t think the rioters deserved shorted sentences.

Yes!

If anything this has just highlighted how light other sentences are, rather than these sentences being to harsh.

The message is, and should be, clear. If you act like a racist thuggish lout then there will be consequences. Looting, abusing people, damaging property, inciting violence and all the other delightful actions these 'protesters' took part in are not acceptable.

alwaysmovingforwards · 14/08/2024 18:14

TiredWife · 14/08/2024 17:51

Firstly, in no way do I support the disgusting, racist behaviour we've seen over the last couple of weeks, and I fully believe the major perpetrators need to be found and punished.

Given his background Starmer has obviously been able to pull lots of strings to process a huge volume of offenders through the courts, and there is clearly a directive to name and shame in the media to send the clear message that this sort of behaviour will not be tolerated. All good, and in the past I would have been firmly in support of this.

However there's something about the scale and speed of the court response which is making me uncomfortable. It feels as if they are highlighting specific cases to 'send a message' and it doesn't seem consistent with how the police and courts have handled previous similar cases.

So for instance an 18 year old has just been sentenced to 26 weeks in a young offender institution for 'possession of a bladed article in a public place'. I live near a London suburb and I reckon about a third of men out on the streets on a Saturday night would fall foul of this! But the police seem reluctant to stop them, let alone charge them?

Similarly the 53 year old woman, first offender, jailed for 15 months over Facebook hate post. Again, I don't condone what she did, but when you look at all the hate that women get online, or the death threats sent to JKR or MPs, there are few instances of people being jailed in the same way?

Justice needs to be applied fairly and consistently, across all groups, but this feels like a response at a level which cannot be maintained/applied across the board? Is that fair?

I agree with your idealism.
But justice always has and always be political.

Ritasueandbobtoo9 · 14/08/2024 18:14

Honestly it is too much. I know loads of people who never even get prosecuted. Two teir Keir indeed.

TiredWife · 14/08/2024 18:14

Snacksgalore · 14/08/2024 18:04

It seems to inline with what happened after 2011 riots. I’m a supporte if Starmer but I don’t think anything that is happening here is unique.

That's interesting. I wasn't in the country at the time of the 2011 riots so wasn't aware of the aftermath, but just looked it up and about 4000 arrests were made, so you might be right!

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OnlyYellowRoses · 14/08/2024 18:15

Nope sorry I completely agree with a come down hard on them approach. Let them know from the start it's not acceptable behaviour. I think maybe if even first time offences were likely to end in a prison sentence if would deter people from acting like numpties in the first place

Sirzy · 14/08/2024 18:16

The legal system is damned if it does and damned if it doesn’t.

hopefully knowing that they will be caught and punished will stop people jumping on the bandwagon next time.

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