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Politics

Anyone feeling slightly uncomfortable with the scale of the sentencing after the riots?

362 replies

TiredWife · 14/08/2024 17:51

Firstly, in no way do I support the disgusting, racist behaviour we've seen over the last couple of weeks, and I fully believe the major perpetrators need to be found and punished.

Given his background Starmer has obviously been able to pull lots of strings to process a huge volume of offenders through the courts, and there is clearly a directive to name and shame in the media to send the clear message that this sort of behaviour will not be tolerated. All good, and in the past I would have been firmly in support of this.

However there's something about the scale and speed of the court response which is making me uncomfortable. It feels as if they are highlighting specific cases to 'send a message' and it doesn't seem consistent with how the police and courts have handled previous similar cases.

So for instance an 18 year old has just been sentenced to 26 weeks in a young offender institution for 'possession of a bladed article in a public place'. I live near a London suburb and I reckon about a third of men out on the streets on a Saturday night would fall foul of this! But the police seem reluctant to stop them, let alone charge them?

Similarly the 53 year old woman, first offender, jailed for 15 months over Facebook hate post. Again, I don't condone what she did, but when you look at all the hate that women get online, or the death threats sent to JKR or MPs, there are few instances of people being jailed in the same way?

Justice needs to be applied fairly and consistently, across all groups, but this feels like a response at a level which cannot be maintained/applied across the board? Is that fair?

OP posts:
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ImikSiMik · 18/08/2024 08:36

Does anyone know what's happening to the keyboard warriors who were instigating the riots from their homes or swimming pools?

It's all gone a bit quiet on that front.

CaptainMyCaptain · 18/08/2024 08:38

ImikSiMik · 18/08/2024 08:36

Does anyone know what's happening to the keyboard warriors who were instigating the riots from their homes or swimming pools?

It's all gone a bit quiet on that front.

Edited

Well, Yaxley-Lennon will get arrested if he ever tries to get back into Britain.

OlympicGoldfish · 18/08/2024 09:00

Paul2023 · 17/08/2024 10:53

But they are now saying that people who are just there and not rioting can be prosecuted.. how’s that even fair ?
Someone could go to a peaceful protest, which could be hijacked and turned into violent disorder, and they could get prosecuted too ..

Who’s saying that?

RobinStrike · 18/08/2024 10:03

Paul2023 · 17/08/2024 10:53

But they are now saying that people who are just there and not rioting can be prosecuted.. how’s that even fair ?
Someone could go to a peaceful protest, which could be hijacked and turned into violent disorder, and they could get prosecuted too ..

Who is saying this? The people being sentenced have mostly been charged with violent disorder. They have been assaulting police officers and the public, using bricks and planks of wood as weapons, trying to set fire to buildings. All of this is on various cameras and they have pleaded guilty. If they believed they were innocent they could have opted to go to trial. But it was clear they had done it.
Some people will be charged with riot which is more serious.
I can't see any innocent people or just standing protesting being charged at all

bitesthedust · 18/08/2024 10:25

RobinStrike · 18/08/2024 10:03

Who is saying this? The people being sentenced have mostly been charged with violent disorder. They have been assaulting police officers and the public, using bricks and planks of wood as weapons, trying to set fire to buildings. All of this is on various cameras and they have pleaded guilty. If they believed they were innocent they could have opted to go to trial. But it was clear they had done it.
Some people will be charged with riot which is more serious.
I can't see any innocent people or just standing protesting being charged at all

GBNews and TalkTV are saying the most ridiculous things to make ppl believe we are about to enter a dictatorship

itsgettingweird · 18/08/2024 10:33

And people are buying it.

Even here on Mn there's a thread (by a new poster 🤔) about how Labour are leading us away from freedom of speech.

It's funny how the people who all spout we are being led away from freedom of speech - fail to realise that freedom of speech is exactly what allows them to post such drivel online 😂

RobinStrike · 18/08/2024 11:34

The one thing I think the government should do is introduce legislation that bans protestors from wearing masks and balaclavas. If they are keen enough to protest and be violent they need to be identifiable.

Southwestten · 18/08/2024 12:00

RobinStrike · Today 11:34
The one thing I think the government should do is introduce legislation that bans protestors from wearing masks and balaclavas. If they are keen enough to protest and be violent they need to be identifiable.

I read somewhere that there’d been talk of this with exceptions made for face coverings worn on religious grounds.

EllieQ · 18/08/2024 12:47

ImikSiMik · 18/08/2024 08:36

Does anyone know what's happening to the keyboard warriors who were instigating the riots from their homes or swimming pools?

It's all gone a bit quiet on that front.

Edited

There have been a few. Bernie Spofforth (who first posted that the suspect was an asylum seeker) was arrested.

Theres been a couple of other charges as well - Julie Sweeney was jailed for a post about blowing up a mosque, and Lucy Connolly was arrested and charged with a similar offence.

Bernie Spofforth arrest

Woman who shared false name of Southport suspect on social media bailed

Police across the UK issued warnings over online sharing of an 'incorrect' name and a false story about the background of the Southport suspect

https://inews.co.uk/news/woman-shared-false-southport-suspect-bailed-3220329?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR1uedyP9MBoHV3vHyDqYE-bMge_YyDGro0xqcv9lG-CYeJM4eI6l4vpfsE_aem_VvZbvQPFFjWGqDc-yd90mA

bristollyn · 19/08/2024 15:20

Yes. I do feel uncomfortable. I grew up in Northern Ireland during the troubles and I can guarantee this deterrent won't work. It will only breed further resentment and anger which will fester and only grow. Extreme example i know but Internment camps only bolstered support it did nothing to deter.We have a concept of natural justice and the punishment should fit the crime and at this point I do not think this is happening. I have been and always will be left wing but I also believe that if we do not see the injustice done to those who we disagree with we do not see the danger to civil liberty for ourselves.

LesbianNana · 20/08/2024 14:40

InkyPinkyPonky24 · 14/08/2024 18:35

The sentences are not consistent though which I think angers some people. This 13 year old girl has essentially been charged for kicking and punching the hotel door. However, I know of a family who had their door kicked and punched by a 15 year old on 3 occasions, which caused serious psychiatric harm to a member of their household. Yet the police say "we don't want to criminalise youngsters".

Consistency is needed as it will breed resentment.

There was a group of women who met at a pub and a huge mob of trans women and men surrounded the pub, screaming, pounding on the walls, doors, windows, throwing firecrackers. They would harass the ladies every week at their meetings. Police never did anything. Instead of arresting them they told the women they had to leave.

ImikSiMik · 20/08/2024 15:13

@LesbianNana
My friend was at a work DEI meeting about putting support in place for those affected by the riots. The DEI consultant reframed the recent riots as racist & transphobic riots. Then went on about how the riots targeted large sections of the trans community.

I understand that there maybe some intersectionalities between ethnic minority and the trans communities. However, the media didn't present the recent riots as anything other than race related. So I wonder why the DEI consultant understood it to be anti trans.

Mosques, ethnic minority community centres, asylum centres etc were targeted by racist rioters. I haven't heard of trans support groups & centres being targeted. My friend said she didn't challenge the DEI consultant because she didn't want to be singled out as the one asking awkward questions.

JoanOfMarch · 20/08/2024 15:44

The thugs who looted, set fire to buildings, threw bricks and fought the police needed punishment.

But reading about this pensioner who said some naughty words and got 20 months, I think it is harsh. Especially when they are letting out criminals early to accommodate this man.

Surely a fine or community service tidying up the streets, picking up rubbish or cleaning up graffiti would have been a better punishment for his verbal insults.

Otherwise, every time someone says rude words at a rally, protest, riot or public event, we will need to free up a prison cell with immediate effect.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/pensioner-who-joined-riots-told-33497768

Pensioner who joined riots and told cops 'you're not English any more' jailed

David Notley, 67, has been jailed for 20 months after he took part in the far-right riots in Whitehall and chanted 'you're not English anymore' at police officers

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/pensioner-who-joined-riots-told-33497768

ImikSiMik · 20/08/2024 15:52

JoanOfMarch · 20/08/2024 15:44

The thugs who looted, set fire to buildings, threw bricks and fought the police needed punishment.

But reading about this pensioner who said some naughty words and got 20 months, I think it is harsh. Especially when they are letting out criminals early to accommodate this man.

Surely a fine or community service tidying up the streets, picking up rubbish or cleaning up graffiti would have been a better punishment for his verbal insults.

Otherwise, every time someone says rude words at a rally, protest, riot or public event, we will need to free up a prison cell with immediate effect.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/pensioner-who-joined-riots-told-33497768

@JoanofMarch they should have got him to do community service in a mosque or asylum centre etc rebuilding the damage the rioters caused. Plus, made him attend race relations and DEI training and meet with people from different communities.

GiantHornets · 20/08/2024 16:00

ImikSiMik · 20/08/2024 15:52

@JoanofMarch they should have got him to do community service in a mosque or asylum centre etc rebuilding the damage the rioters caused. Plus, made him attend race relations and DEI training and meet with people from different communities.

He pleaded guilty to violent disorder. According to the BBC report, “he helped push another demonstrator into a police officer which "precipitated a physical confrontation involving the police [and] demonstrators", the prosecutor said”

it was more than verbal insults and should not be minimised

(edited to remove accidental double quote)

LesbianNana · 20/08/2024 16:02

ImikSiMik · 20/08/2024 15:13

@LesbianNana
My friend was at a work DEI meeting about putting support in place for those affected by the riots. The DEI consultant reframed the recent riots as racist & transphobic riots. Then went on about how the riots targeted large sections of the trans community.

I understand that there maybe some intersectionalities between ethnic minority and the trans communities. However, the media didn't present the recent riots as anything other than race related. So I wonder why the DEI consultant understood it to be anti trans.

Mosques, ethnic minority community centres, asylum centres etc were targeted by racist rioters. I haven't heard of trans support groups & centres being targeted. My friend said she didn't challenge the DEI consultant because she didn't want to be singled out as the one asking awkward questions.

The pub incident happened a year or so ago.

Haha transphobic riots, really? Had not a thing to do with trans people. They slot themselves into every. single. dang. thing. So ridiculous.

I don’t blame your friend at all for not speaking up, it’s best that she didn’t.

JoanOfMarch · 20/08/2024 16:11

GiantHornets · 20/08/2024 16:00

He pleaded guilty to violent disorder. According to the BBC report, “he helped push another demonstrator into a police officer which "precipitated a physical confrontation involving the police [and] demonstrators", the prosecutor said”

it was more than verbal insults and should not be minimised

(edited to remove accidental double quote)

Edited

I read through it and could not see where it said it was more than the rude words, but I've now found the BBC page and it does say he helped push someone and had spouted rude words.

I stand corrected. It will serve as a punishment to anyone who pushes and is foul mouthed in future. Serves these yobs right.

While I was on the BBC website, I saw someone had been jailed for shouting at a police dog. There must be more to this story too! It is hard to keep up!

LesbianNana · 20/08/2024 16:13

GiantHornets · 20/08/2024 16:00

He pleaded guilty to violent disorder. According to the BBC report, “he helped push another demonstrator into a police officer which "precipitated a physical confrontation involving the police [and] demonstrators", the prosecutor said”

it was more than verbal insults and should not be minimised

(edited to remove accidental double quote)

Edited

Who the heck is advising all of them to plead guilty? They are getting absolutely terrible advice. It’s very strange.

Even the MP who was on camera advising everyone to slit the throats of rioters pleaded not guilty.

What happened to the Muslim thugs who beat the three cops senseless at the airport? Broke the one cop’s nose. How many years did they get?

Nadeed · 20/08/2024 16:15

Generally if you can not afford shit hot lawyers, and they have evidence you did it, you are better pleading guilty.

JoanOfMarch · 20/08/2024 16:45

Hold your horses LesbianNana, the MP and the airport thugs will get their comeuppance shortly. As the MP is pleading not guilty, I suspect it will be a hefty sentence as he's caught bang to rights on the camera. Same as the airport thugs. Watch this space.

Infrequentlyhere · 20/08/2024 16:48

I think judges take into account the deterrant effect and this sentencing was in a context where a strong deterrent was clearly needed. And it worked.

ImikSiMik · 21/08/2024 06:03

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgrwe361l1o

I wondered whether poor mental health would be used as a defense and it has by this thug for screaming at a police dog's face. I'd have set the dog loose on him tbh and looked the other way, the revoltimg scumbag.

A mugshot of Timbrell ,wearing a black hoodie. He has short hair and a shaven face, with neck tattoos on both sides.

Bristol unrest: 'Racist' man who threw concrete at police jailed

Craig Timbrell has been jailed for two and a half years after hurling projectiles at police during a protest.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgrwe361l1o

JoanOfMarch · 22/08/2024 13:11

Another couple of days flown by and still no word of Councillor Ricky Jones' punishment. Why is he not behind bars after he called for violence against right wing people which is on camera?

Prawncow · 22/08/2024 13:19

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/09/former-labour-councillor-ricky-jones-charged-with-encouraging-violent-disorder

*Jaswant Narwal, the chief crown prosecutor for the Crown Prosecution Service – London North, said: “The Crown Prosecution Service has authorised the Metropolitan police to charge Ricky Jones, 57, with one count of encouraging violent disorder.

“Jones was filmed addressing a crowd in Walthamstow on Wednesday 7 August during which he appeared to make remarks and a gesture to encourage others to act violently towards far-right protesters.
“He has been arrested and charged within 48 hours, and will now appear at Westminster magistrates court this afternoon. We remind all concerned that criminal proceedings are active and that he has the right to a fair trial.*

Suspended Labour councillor charged with encouraging violent disorder

Charge relates to speech in which Ricky Jones ‘appeared to … encourage others to act violently towards far-right protesters’ CPS says

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/09/former-labour-councillor-ricky-jones-charged-with-encouraging-violent-disorder

Ted27 · 22/08/2024 13:35

@JoanOfMarch

Ricky Jones is due in court on 6 September.