How is Sovereignity working out for you?

[Zeropointzero]

Are there any other people who think we have been fed the biggest lie in regards to sovereignity of Britain.I think the current gas chrisis shows,how dependant Britain is on China and Russia and Europe.

Reluctant interesting post one off wage increase may not be a big factor. I’d welcome changes in working conditions now it’s in the spotlight as it seems for many it’s an issue.

Inflation is more likely to happen due to energy increase which may well not be absorbed by profit margins. There’s no cap for business and they seem to have a lot of increases at same time.

Some of this is hitting globally (energy) others not as much (shipping to some degree?)

It isn't going to be one off.

There are labour shortages across the economy.

If we plug them by raising wages people move sector, driving up prices in other sectors. Driving up inflation.

I have no issue with planned wage rises, they are not the same.

Also important to consider tight-margin businesses e.g. care homes. Two have gone bust in my local area. What happens to the residents?

The market can't just sort these things out in a chaotic way. I'm not a laissez-faire economy fan as people lose livelihoods and services.

If there's a shortage of care workers, and wages rise, then government needs to pay more for care, affecting council budgets.

Trying to portray anyone who is worried we are in for economic pain as somehow not supporting low wage workers - that's bollocks. This chaotic Brexit restructure is not going to increase wealth or reduce inequality.

@rrhuth,

So the rise in the investment bankers’ remuneration (current first year analyst average income £86k) was all based on productivity, and yet, despite the increase in driving and monitoring technology, HGV drivers’ productivity has been static for years…

And wage growth was clearly not capped by cheap Eastern European labour? It is just that they work harder than the ‘lazy’ Brits who would not be prepared to do the job for any salary or working conditions.

Meanwhile, back in the real world, a balanced article from a very pro EU group of economists:

cebr.com/reports/the-times-labour-shortage-is-forcing-pay-up-but-how-long-can-it-last/

Shite. It’s all shite. The UK deserves to be covered in shite. We voted Tory and we voted brexit (I didn’t vote for either of those but overall we did)

@rrhuth

‘This chaotic Brexit restructure is not going to increase wealth or reduce inequality.’

You are linking two things that are not necessarily linked. It probably won’t increase gdp (in fact, it will probably cost a few % over 10 years).

However, globalisation clearly delivers all the productivity gains to the highest earners, especially the top quintile. This has been true in the UK and the US (dependent on cheap Hispanic labour).

Across the rest of Europe, the picture is more mixed as the lowest GDP migrant workers have a language and culture barrier to penetrate.

We may be a few percent poorer on average, but the lower paid workers, who were out-competed by migrants, prepared to work for poverty wages (as they could transfer this money home), may be a lot better off.

Whether you see this as a good or bad thing is subjective (as seen on these threads!).

[quote TheReluctantPhoenix]@rrhuth,

So the rise in the investment bankers’ remuneration (current first year analyst average income £86k) was all based on productivity, and yet, despite the increase in driving and monitoring technology, HGV drivers’ productivity has been static for years…

And wage growth was clearly not capped by cheap Eastern European labour? It is just that they work harder than the ‘lazy’ Brits who would not be prepared to do the job for any salary or working conditions.

Meanwhile, back in the real world, a balanced article from a very pro EU group of economists:

cebr.com/reports/the-times-labour-shortage-is-forcing-pay-up-but-how-long-can-it-last/[/quote]
I'm opposed to that type of rise in high earners' wages personally, and in shareholder payments.

If you trust Johnson and Rees Mogg to deliver a high-wage German-style economy, that's your right. Important to note Germany has EU migrants aplenty. Almost as if immigration is not the real issue, just a red herring to get support for Brexit...

My view is the same as pre-referendum - Brexit will be bad for the British economy and the brunt of the negative impacts will be felt most keenly by families at the bottom of the income scale.

We didn't need to leave the EU to address inequality. UK had the worst inequality in the EU, because of domestic political choices. Leaving the EU won't change those domestic choices.

@rrhuth

Too factual probably, dull, not emotive yes exactly - this is poor communication. They needed some fear ads of queues at petrol pumps and heaps of pig carcasses being burnt on farms

But that is never going to be the result of Brexit, because we will be free of the yoke of Europe to trade with the world and make our own rules.

I think 'free of the yoke' is one of my fave brexiteer phrases

I see Germany is crippled by that yoke!

@rrhuth,

Germany has done extraordinarily well out of the Euro (not the EU per se), to the cost of the Southern European nations.

They have had the advantage of an exchange rate very favourable to their GDP, compared to the Southern Europeans who have suffered under the yoke (good word) of a currency which hobbled their industry and agriculture.

@ssd 🤞

[quote Zeropointzero]@blacksax.you are one of the people,who order fish and chips when in a restaurant in spain and complain that the spanish dont speak english.little englander.[/quote]
How rude. And so very wrong in every respect.

[quote TheReluctantPhoenix]@rrhuth,

So the rise in the investment bankers’ remuneration (current first year analyst average income £86k) was all based on productivity, and yet, despite the increase in driving and monitoring technology, HGV drivers’ productivity has been static for years…

And wage growth was clearly not capped by cheap Eastern European labour? It is just that they work harder than the ‘lazy’ Brits who would not be prepared to do the job for any salary or working conditions.

Meanwhile, back in the real world, a balanced article from a very pro EU group of economists:

cebr.com/reports/the-times-labour-shortage-is-forcing-pay-up-but-how-long-can-it-last/[/quote]
In many of the lowest paid sectors it is very hard to raise productivity due to the nature of the work. Driving and monitoring technology will only make marginal differences as productivity is limited mainly by the speed of deliveries. Producity will not increase much until we replace drivers with fully autonomous vehicles.

Similarly in the care sector you can't make many efficiencies and raise productivity much as it is so labour intensive. In retail there might be more scope e.g moving to a model more like lidl with lower staffing. You can see this happening in many supermarkets with the loss of deli and butchery staff.

Ultimately increased productivity leads to the loss of many jobs e.g strawberry picking becomes automated. Whether or not this is a bad thing depends on your perceptive. Long term there may be a rational for a universal basic income to replace these jobs.

In the short term a labour shortage will put many smaller UK companies which are unable to afford to invest in upskilling or productivity out of business. This is expected in parts of the food production industry and will result in greater imports and food insecurity.

We may be a few percent poorer on average, but the lower paid workers, who were out-competed by migrants, prepared to work for poverty wages (as they could transfer this money home), may be a lot better off.

That doesn’t really hold with the model of scarcity-driven wage growth (rather than productivity-driven wage growth) we now seem to be going for. It delivers inflation which always hits those with less discretionary income hardest.

@pokhora,

So how have investment bankers increased productivity by many hundreds of percent in the last 30 years (despite the shareholders not profiting at all)?

The same argument could be made for many areas.

Ultimately we have increased productivity (although not that much) by actually continuously paying less and less in real terms to our semiskilled and unskilled labour.

I do agree with you about some kind of universal income, though. It is just that many ‘skilled’ people believe that endless discussion in TEAMS meetings cannot be automated-they can.

@TheReluctantPhoenix. Shareholders of investment trusts have profited enormously e.g one I happen to hold has increased by 270% in the last 5 years.
www.google.com/search?q=allianz+technology+trust+share+price&client=ms-android-samsung-rev2&source=android-browser&ei=dmphYeffNsf4gQauuISQBw&oq=allianz+technology+Trust+share&gs_lcp=ChNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwEAEYADIKCAAQgAQQRhD6ATIFCAAQgAQyBQgAEIAEMgQIABBDMgUIABCABDIFCAAQgAQyBQgAEIAEMgYIABAWEB46BAgAEEc6CwguEIAEEMcBENEDULQSWKYfYOcmaABwAXgBgAGYA4gBqweSAQc0LjIuNC0xmAEAoAEByAEIwAEB&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp

@rrhuth

I think 'free of the yoke' is one of my fave brexiteer phrases

I see Germany is crippled by that yoke!

We forget (and in some cases never knew) that 30 years ago Germany practically doubled in size overnight with West Germany buying up East Germany and pickup up all it's debts.

Something the UK would - and still could - not have ever done.

@pokhora,

I am talking about shares in investment banks specifically.

And, yes, last few years have been good, but 20-30 years, not do good.

@Zeropointzero Snobbish, patronising, incoherent comments such as accusing leavers of eating fish and chips in Spain create division and are one of the reasons Remain lost.

@blacksax and FreshFreesias. What is rude and ignorant is commenting on a spelling mistake.this is why corrrectly leave voters have been named as stupid ,ignorant and xenophobic.I bet neither of you can write an essay in German,French or italien without a spelling mistake!

[quote FreshFreesias]@Zeropointzero Snobbish, patronising, incoherent comments such as accusing leavers of eating fish and chips in Spain create division and are one of the reasons Remain lost.[/quote]
It was I who had that fish and chips in Spain accusation levelled against me.

Ironically, due to my German heritage, I am far more likely to be found quaffing riesling and sucking on a bratwurst on the banks of the Rhine than I am devouring sardinas and patatas bravas on the Costa Del Sol. But there you go

@blacksax.spelling mistake it is RheinThe word Bratwurst you got right,probably because it is used in the english language too.poor attempt to wanting to show,you know 2 words in german.the german heritage must be far far back in history

Germany has a higher number of immigrants than the UK and higher productivity.

The UK gov could learn a lot but they have rejected all things European so they won’t.

All this going on about the economy, when are you going to get it? Leave voters don't give a shit about the economy. All they ever cared about was sticking two fingers up to Europe and getting rid of immigrants. And yes, having a stupid fucking crown on a pint glass is more important to them than empty supermarket shelves and petrol queues. Johnson get this, that's why he's so popular.