How is Sovereignity working out for you?

[Zeropointzero]

Are there any other people who think we have been fed the biggest lie in regards to sovereignity of Britain.I think the current gas chrisis shows,how dependant Britain is on China and Russia and Europe.

@rrhuth

This video clip from last night's Newsnight covering immigration, productivity, investment and wages is very good: twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1445869220751937538

In the Brexit debate remainers failed to communicate the economic realities of leaving the EU. Sadly we are now going to have to live through them, and we will all be poorer.

I'm sorry but remainers communicated the f* out of it. Leavers didn't listen because immigrants, and Boris has funny hair.

Besides, it's all Jeremy Corbyn's fault.

In the Brexit debate remainers failed to communicate the economic realities of leaving the EU. Sadly we are now going to have to live through them, and we will all be poorer.

Ya wha @rrhuth? Remainers shouted the economic realities. Repeatedly. Twas called Project Fear. UK citizens still are shouting about the economic and political realities because Brexit isn't half over yet.

Own the mess you voted for.

I voted remain but I think the remain campaign was terrible. People saying the remain campaign communicated well, where did they do that? In the guardian? Because if, for example, you were watching the tv debates they were awful. Obviously ideally people should have researched extensively but that was never going to happen which is why the vote in the first place was stupid. I tried to learn as much as possible but I learnt a lot about the EU after the vote. Also I don’t remember any of the leave politicians promoting a hard brexit. Even Nigel Farage used to go on about how great Norway’s position was.

The main attention should be on the politicians who should have known better.

I love sovereignty 🥰 and it's working out for me. Thanks for asking. 🙂

The raising of wages sounds, superficially to those who do not understand economics, to be a positive thing.

But every economist on both left and right has explained, at length, why it will not make people better off.

I am not economise, but I think it is more nuanced that that. Surely, a gradual increase in wages, across all sectors is a good thing. Although it will contribute to inflation. But don't we need a small rate of inflation anyway to compete globally?

It is the rapid rise in wages in only a few sectors that is really damaging. Everyone else gets less spending power from their stagnation wakes.

Now the government is trying to pass off a desperate fix of boosting hgv drivers as a wage increase for everyone. After voting down a proper an increase for nurses. And telling business to sort it themselves, but claiming this as their doing.

What you want is wages to increase through productivity. This makes everyone richer because wage increases do not automatically translate into higher inflation so people get paid more but things cost the same.

Wages being raised through labour supply shortages automatically mean prices will go up. The impact will be disproportionate. In a few sectors e.g hgv drivers wage increases might outbase inflation but in the majority of low paid sectors, people will be poorer as wages will increase at a lower rate than inflation.

Higher inflation will also mean the boe raising interest rates which will increase the cost of housing. It will also increase the costs of the public sector through higher supply chain costs which will either necessitate an increase in taxes or further cuts to services.

One of the unfortunate impacts of brexit is lower productivity through an increase in bureaucracy and the costs of trading. This will make us all poorer.

I am amazed that any self respecting person would confess to be pro-BrexShit.

Watching it all coming to fruition from afar - a trainwreck in motion. Much of the momentum DIRECTLY attributable to brexit. Yet we still have nationalist right wing twits proclaiming BREXIT was bloody marvellous.

Christ on a bike. What will it take for people to understand that they were hoodwinked/lied to/fed a shovel full of bullshit. It was all lies.

Funny that this benefit of Brexit that the U.K. will become a high wage economy has only been talked about in the last fortnight or so when shortages are beginning to bite as if this had been part of the plan. (Yes I know there never was a plan and they’ve been making it up as they go along). Are all the nurses, carers and other in short supply going to enjoy these high wages too? Or would they be better off going to work in Aldi?

Have we forgotten Boris' Bus of honest politicking..

How is that going for the NHS these days?

@TooBigForMyBoots

In the Brexit debate remainers failed to communicate the economic realities of leaving the EU. Sadly we are now going to have to live through them, and we will all be poorer.

Ya wha @rrhuth? Remainers shouted the economic realities. Repeatedly. Twas called Project Fear. UK citizens still are shouting about the economic and political realities because Brexit isn't half over yet.

Own the mess you voted for.

You've clearly misunderstood my posts or not rtft! I voted remain and am extremely vocal about the fact Brexit is a tragedy for Britain, one of the biggest errors a nation has ever made historically.

So back at you!

Do you think most voters believed what the economic impact of Brexit would be on us all? I don't, and I think the remain campaign was weak.

[quote FreshFreesias]@rrhuth Thank you for your patronising, snobbish gibberish but it is quite clear you do not know any HGV drivers and seem incapable of understanding that British people simply cannot afford to work at rates of as low as £6 an hour.
It’s reprehensible that you think it is acceptable that these kind of essential jobs should be so poorly paid.[/quote]
@FreshFreesias I know some HGV drivers, yes.

Resorting to rude insults won't change the economic realities of Brexit, and how it will make us all less well off.

Either you don't understand the economic explanations, or you won't even read them. Which is your right of course, but what is the point of arguing so hard from a place of a) ignorance or b) obstinate refusal to engage?

You are completely wrong to characterise me as accepting of low pay. But Brexit will not raise living standards which is what matters. The British people will be poorer.

This has only just begun......
CE Marks are to be replaced with the new CA Mark for goods sold in England
This will cause a lot of time and expense
How many global manufacturers are going to bother, and instead just not supply UK because it's no longer profitable?
www.trade.gov/market-intelligence/uk-announces-conformity-mark-replacing-ce-mark

@LeuvenMan this things are so self-destructive and stupid.

Those who voted for Brexit, voted to make Britain poorer. So many thanks for doing that to the rest of us.

these things, sorry

@GADDay

I am amazed that any self respecting person would confess to be pro-BrexShit.

Watching it all coming to fruition from afar - a trainwreck in motion. Much of the momentum DIRECTLY attributable to brexit. Yet we still have nationalist right wing twits proclaiming BREXIT was bloody marvellous.

Christ on a bike. What will it take for people to understand that they were hoodwinked/lied to/fed a shovel full of bullshit. It was all lies.

my best friend is ! he is convinced that brexit is great and will work out to be fantastic , he argues that the europe is short of hgv drivers themselves , and has a ready reason for any other problem the uk is suffering that is attiributable to brexit , the only time he goes a bit quiet is when i point out that whilst we no longer have freedom of movement here which means all those europeans that came to work here and support themselves , we do still have a load of ecomomic migrants illegally arriving by boat that so need supporting and cant work , he hasnt got much to say about that one ,

to save myself becoming frustrated and annoyed i try not to get into any conversation that might turn to brexit

apologies for the many tyos , poor spelling , its too early for me !

I think it’s fair to say that people were lied to. I don’t think anything can be gained for criticisms of the way people voted, when they were voting in the dark. Don’t turn on each other, you are getting mad at the wrong people.
Good luck UK.

The raising of wages sounds, superficially to those who do not understand economics, to be a positive thing.

If these economists are so wise, why did they not predict the 2008 crash? Or indeed any other crash?
If these economists and there beloved markets are so good, why is the government having to subsidize the manufacture of carbon dioxide?
If these economists are so good, why did they not advise the Chancellor that his stamp duty holiday would create a housing bubble?

@Pokhora

What you want is wages to increase through productivity. This makes everyone richer because wage increases do not automatically translate into higher inflation so people get paid more but things cost the same.

Wages being raised through labour supply shortages automatically mean prices will go up. The impact will be disproportionate. In a few sectors e.g hgv drivers wage increases might outbase inflation but in the majority of low paid sectors, people will be poorer as wages will increase at a lower rate than inflation.

Higher inflation will also mean the boe raising interest rates which will increase the cost of housing. It will also increase the costs of the public sector through higher supply chain costs which will either necessitate an increase in taxes or further cuts to services.

One of the unfortunate impacts of brexit is lower productivity through an increase in bureaucracy and the costs of trading. This will make us all poorer.

It may make most of us poorer, but as long as it makes the likes of Jacob Rees Mogg richer, then it is all fine.

If these economists and there beloved markets are so good, why is the government having to subsidize the manufacture of carbon dioxide?

Why do you write about ‘economists and their beloved markets’? Do you think all economists are free market proponents? I’m not sure you understand what economists are.

(It’s fairly basic economics that market failures will occur in any free market system. If that market failure has wider impacts, public policy will need to step in.)

If these economists are so good, why did they not advise the Chancellor that his stamp duty holiday would create a housing bubble?

So many people - economists and not - predicted that. Very publicly. It was a political decision.

@GADDay

Have we forgotten Boris' Bus of honest politicking..

How is that going for the NHS these days?

Boris would love to stick to the promises in the side of the bus, but it’s run out of petrol & they can’t find a driver

Not sure the 100k UK pigs about to be slaughtered and discarded are feeling very sovereign this morning.

@jgw1

The raising of wages sounds, superficially to those who do not understand economics, to be a positive thing.

If these economists are so wise, why did they not predict the 2008 crash? Or indeed any other crash?
If these economists and there beloved markets are so good, why is the government having to subsidize the manufacture of carbon dioxide?
If these economists are so good, why did they not advise the Chancellor that his stamp duty holiday would create a housing bubble?

Economists did warn about these things

Can you not distinguish between economists and politicians?

Economists make no decisions.

Sunak knew the stamp duty holiday would artificially inflate prices, he did it anyway safe in the knowledge people like you blame 'economists' instead of blaming him.

The remain campaign was weak. Because the two main parties refused to get behind it and there wasn't any source of funds for a coordinated "remain" movement.

Unlike "leave" which did have money (the source of which is rather murky).

This isn't the fault of "remainers" though. Most of us are just normal people who wouldn't know how to find or run an effective political campaign.

Really the government should have put some money into developing a campaign for both sides when they decided a referendum was a good idea.

I think Brexit is exacerbating global problems for the UK. It’s not the cause of them.

Everywhere is facing supply chain shortages and inflation. These are not caused by Brexit. Brexit does make it more difficult for us to arbitrage our way out of the worst of this.