Boris' conference talk

[hamstersarse]

Whatever you think of him, I can't help but think his optimism and vision is somewhat engaging?

@IpanemaPeaHen

Well said BurnsherSmurfs. And I would much rather my taxes went to you and others needing help than in the back pockets of the PM’s mates.

Cheers- that’s really kind of you to say that and keeps me hopeful that there is still a lot of that kindness out there- even if ‘be kind’ has become a bit of a weird slogan-thing!

'Let the dead pile high in the streets'

@BaileysforBreakfast

OP - Coming from people who claim to be compassionate and kind? Nobody on this thread has described themselves as compassionate and kind. You are as adept at making up bullshit as Boris is.

I wonder if you're one of those people who is impressed because he went to Eton and has lots of money and clout; someone who hero worships people who they think are 'above' them in some imagined pecking order. Does that describe you, OP?

Yes. Yes it does.

There used to be a phrase for it - aspirational Tories

Is this a problem for you? In what way would it be bad to admire people who have money and clout?

I suppose the answer to that is that admiration might be better given after consideration of how they gained that money and how they apply that clout.

In what way would it be bad to admire people who have money and clout?
I don't think it's 'bad', but I do think it's sad to be so in thrall to people who are richer than you - to admire someone for what they have rather than what they are. Each to their own. I prefer to admire people who have honesty, talent and integrity. Still, at least you admit that it's his money and 'breeding' you're impressed with, rather than his bumbling idiocy. The Pandora Papers are doing a fairly good expose at the moment of the people you so admire... to use your own words "people with money [however ill-gotten] and clout". The world is full of them. No wonder, if they have so many people prepared to grovel at their feet.

Without 'money and clout' Johnson would be a nobody. He's Benny Hill with a posh accent and a bit of racism thrown in.
I can't imagine why anyone would admire him.

And just maybe people who are poor are sick of being seen as victims who need looking after and patronised by the middle class lefties. Maybe they would prefer to have some aspiration for themselves - and be rich! The Tories do actually show they have confidence in the ability of poor people - they don't think poor people are incapable, as the lefties do.

www.theweek.co.uk/107341/how-conservative-party-became-party-of-poor

@BaileysforBreakfast

In what way would it be bad to admire people who have money and clout? I don't think it's 'bad', but I do think it's sad to be so in thrall to people who are richer than you - to admire someone for what they have rather than what they are. Each to their own. I prefer to admire people who have honesty, talent and integrity. Still, at least you admit that it's his money and 'breeding' you're impressed with, rather than his bumbling idiocy. The Pandora Papers are doing a fairly good expose at the moment of the people you so admire... to use your own words "people with money [however ill-gotten] and clout". The world is full of them. No wonder, if they have so many people prepared to grovel at their feet.

Said by a true middle class person on the left

"It's sad to be so in thrall to people who are richer than you"

On the one hand, you think poverty is hell. But then aspiration is also hell?

You see how people with no money would want to tell you to do one?

@hamstersarse - that's just not true. They don't care a jot about poor people. Have aspirations, get rich. That's great. But don't think Johnson's Tories will give you a leg up. They'd rather forget about you like they have about Nazaneen Zaghari-Ratcliffe.

On the one hand, you think poverty is hell. But then aspiration is also hell?
I have said neither of those things. You are just making shit up now, OP. I think this thread is just here for GF reasons, so this will be my last post on it. Feel free to make up some more nonsense that I didn't actually say have the last word.
FWIW I am one of those people 'with no money' that you refer to. You truly have no idea.

[quote luckylavender]@hamstersarse - that's just not true. They don't care a jot about poor people. Have aspirations, get rich. That's great. But don't think Johnson's Tories will give you a leg up. They'd rather forget about you like they have about Nazaneen Zaghari-Ratcliffe.[/quote]
When you are very poor, I can guarantee you that you will have aspirations to be rich.

Why the left don't get that is a mystery. It's like they want to keep them there for their little play toys to make themselves look good?

I'm amazed that people are still buying into his shit. After everything that has happened.

I've got to hand it to the guy. He clearly has something going for him, as so many people seem willing to follow him so blindly. The triumph of hope over experience, I guess. I don't get it personally.

@hamstersarse - yes I know, of course. But why you think Labour enables it and Johnson's Tories are the answer is truly baffling. I grew up in the South Wales Valleys and saw the devastation that Thatcher caused my community, the scars have never healed. And I never thought would loath any politician as much as her. But at least she had a plan. When Johnson talks about well paid skilled jobs, what do you think that means for Care workers, refuse collectors, people waiting on tables?

Appalling hypocrite.

@hamstersarse It always tickles me that if you don't admire/support/agree with or are heavily suspicious of BJ and his Gvmnt, then you're a 'lefty'. It's really not the case for many many people. Many dyed-in-the-wool conservatives are also raging against this lot.
You are generalising and straw clutching to try and make some sort of point, which seems to boil down to the fact you are a Boris fan, and anyone who questions that is not an optimist/nice person/aspirational/ever been poor and must be a 'lefty'.
Think that about captures it.

Education, aspiration, work ethic, optimism, kindness, compassion, clarity of understanding - are quite widespread throughout the population. You seem to think you have a monopoly.

Boris Johnson:

Mini Trump

Bannon disciple

"What people want is...." bullshit (ie. what Boris wants)

Invader of social media under a cloak of invisibility

Self aggrandising

Liar

Cheat (in all directions)

Gaslighter extraordinaire

Well, I enjoyed his speech. Positive and optimistic. Well done Boris

Hiphopopotamus
hamstersarsemand the depressing thing is that people like you get a vote

So Hiphopopotamus you think anyone who votes Tory shouldn’t be allowed to vote?
Very democratic!

OP you are living proof of why I believe that all voters should have to take an IQ test before being allowed anywhere near a ballot box. You simply don’t show the required level of intelligence.

@hamstersarse

Whatever you think of him, I can't help but think his optimism and vision is somewhat engaging?

Did he say where all that money he promised on the side of that bus for the NHS had gone? Or was that just a vision and optimism?

You know what I would prefer truth and realism.

For fans of BJ’s -word- -salad- speech:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/58818531?fbclid=IwAR0Eu-EadKqUPo-9J3BvsCEoG6T08wGGkpilvUb1bRQEm0-8QSIMUnonng8

Never got the hang of the strikethrough :)

His speech was panned from both left AND right. Mostly importantly all business groups thought it was shit and we are going to see inflation issues soon.

All he does is smirk and bullshit, nothing optimistic or engaging about that despicable creature

[quote hamstersarse]@BananaPB

Much of the civil service / public sector needs a rocket up it's arse. The inefficiency has got beyond a joke - that is something I agreed with Dominic Cummings on.

I do not support the unlimited funding argument for the public sector that comes from the left. " We just need more money" . That may be true in some areas but it is not everywhere, yet it is the universal cry when performance is bad.[/quote]
The interesting thing is that the more the private sector get involved in public services the even less efficient the public services become.
See for example the difference between the vaccine roll out and track and trace.
There is probably a strong correlation between the number of "consultants" on a project and its inefficieny.