Boris' conference talk

[hamstersarse]

Whatever you think of him, I can't help but think his optimism and vision is somewhat engaging?

@hamstersarse - and you're talking the same sort of drivel that he does. He performs as a vapid hilarious clown but he's actually very very dangerous. What he is doing to people is immoral. But you think he's funny, ok.

Here’s a slightly better link to the Stefanovic video- apologies as hadn’t realised it wasn’t included in the discussion there.
:
Always seems interesting to me that Cummings is considered such an unreliable source only now that he is out of power and saying things that challenge the government. When he was within the inner circle, it didn’t appear to be a concern. He seems to me to be no more or less of a liar now than he was then- but at least is no longer making decisions that affect whether people live or die (at least, I hope not- who knows nowadays).
Led by Donkeys campaigns are always good to look at too if humour is your thing. twitter.com/bydonkeys
If you have concerns about the quotations being decontextualised then it’s not hard to follow up to discover the context for yourself.

Awful. Bullshit, bluster and lies, as usual.

@FinallyHere

What are the lies that people refer to all the time?

Now I know you are not serious, OP.

@Burnshersmurfs you beat me to it. 😀

The PM is the ultimate authority on lies within the chamber, so there are effectively no longer any sanctions on lying to the House.

Hansard has examples of the PM's lies written into the record.

I am a bit serious.

I don't doubt that Boris lies, or at the very least exaggerates.

What I don't get is the simplistic position people use on this. Liar or Bastion of Truth. We are all a bit in the middle here. So I just think it is a bit lazy. Those examples given in the video could very easily be labelled as outright lies if you are being lazy about it, but there are explanations for each of them, which if it were you, you would expect to be taken into account.

This demand for absolute truth is ironically one of the reasons that politicians have to lie.

e.g. Journalist "Can you confirm that there will be no checks in N.I after Brexit, it's a yes or no answer"

Boris " Well, we will do our utmost to protect the borders"

Journalist "It's a yes or no answer"

Boris " It's complicated, there are things to consider...bla bla"

Journalist: " Why are you avoiding the question..yes or no can you provide an absolute guarantee?"

You see where it goes.

[quote luckylavender]@hamstersarse - and you're talking the same sort of drivel that he does. He performs as a vapid hilarious clown but he's actually very very dangerous. What he is doing to people is immoral. But you think he's funny, ok. [/quote]
It's just an observation and don't worry my feelz aren't hurt, but there are an awful lot of personal attacks towards me on this thread.

Coming from people who claim to be compassionate and kind?

The words "I don't know" are underrated and need to be used more by politicians.

"We can not guarantee no border checks but would prefer a solution which doesn't involve any"

No other job would accept such a wishy washy answer. In most other jobs you agree to deliver products or services by fixed dates at agreed prices and are answerable to why it's not possible if things change.

Are you the poster who posted a similar thread yesterday? (It might have been taken down ?)

The words "I don't know" are underrated and need to be used more by politicians.

I agree.

But our press and seemingly now us, will not accept that things are not ever straight black and white.

I can't imagine anyone accepting a politician saying "I don't know"

Why don't you know?!?

You are paid to do this, you should know

We seem to need the comfort of black and white answers when the truth is always more grey

I understand they aren't going to admit that border checks were an EU red line that they wouldn't cross so they had to concede on that front. Politicians should be responsible enough not to promise what they can't deliver.
No border checks might be the vision but it's not workable in reality.

It is fair to be angry that politicians have made bold statements about Brexit without them delivering it or admitting that they spoke too soon.

In the case of journalists, there will be desperation to be in the loop as much as government favourites Laura K and Robert Peston. It's extraordinary how they are briefed before everyone else on important issues like lockdown rules.

@BananaPB

It is fair to be angry that politicians have made bold statements about Brexit without them delivering it or admitting that they spoke too soon.

The point is we don't allow politicians to do anything other than bold statements that fit in a headline

This is cross party by the way.

We demand comfort, reassurance and certainty from them even though it is usually based on bollocks. If we could handle more nuance and accepted that there isn't always a straightforward answer then things might improve.

I enjoyed Boris's speech today because at least it was upbeat - do I think that he will be able to deliver "level up" - probably not. It's going to be almost impossible to deliver that vision, and that is for anyone in that position. It is incredibly complex, and subject to huge risks and dependencies but maybe there will be marginal changes.

Does that make him a liar?

Not any worse than any leader I have ever come across.

Just appreciated a bit of upbeatness and optimism amongst the doom and gloom

The saying:

“Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me three times, shame on both of us.”

come to mind.

The biggest lie coming from the Left is that Trans Women are Women. That is at almighty proportions in the lying gauge, not some over-optimism about what can be achieved.

Looks like change is a-comin in the Tory party too -

Carrie Johnson urges Tories to back transgender rights

@urbanbuddha

The biggest lie coming from the Left is that Trans Women are Women. That is at almighty proportions in the lying gauge, not some over-optimism about what can be achieved.

Looks like change is a-comin in the Tory party too -

Carrie Johnson urges Tories to back transgender rights

Yes, this was an interesting intervention I thought, given the pains to present an 'anti-woke' (wtf) agenda.

@hamstersarse - it is very difficult to keep calm when you are really admiring someone who is doing the most vulnerable in society very real harm. And you're so very flippant about it. So excuse me for actually not being so bothered about your feelings as I am about those who literally cannot afford to feed their children and know it will get worse.

“Just appreciated a bit of upbeatness and optimism amongst the doom and gloom”
I can really understand why. However, I feel like I’m the more optimistic one in the end because I actually do believe that things could and can change. If the position you hold is that: 1) all politicians are liars 2) we just need to accept that and let them get on with it 3) there’s no point in getting involved either emotionally or actively 4) at least some of them provide the lols so we might as well hang on to them, then that seems to be closer to despair than hope. Do you really believe this- this careless, selfish, extemporising buffoon and retinue of on-the-make shysters- is what we deserve?

[quote luckylavender]@hamstersarse - it is very difficult to keep calm when you are really admiring someone who is doing the most vulnerable in society very real harm. And you're so very flippant about it. So excuse me for actually not being so bothered about your feelings as I am about those who literally cannot afford to feed their children and know it will get worse. [/quote]
You don't actually know anything about me

I also could not be able to afford to feed my kids.

The truth is that I can afford to. Just. I am a single parent and have been through various levels of poverty over the past 11 years on my own. There have been times when I was really really struggling to feed my kids. I am not flippant about it at all. I actually get it very clearly. I also volunteer in a homeless shelter - get that eh! And as above, I said I do not agree with the UC reduction / resetting, I think it should be kept.

I used to be on the Left. However even given my actual life experience, I still don't think doling out more and more benefits does anyone any favours in the long-run. It destroys your soul. I think that the Tory policy around opportunities is more favourable for people who are in that position. No-one (sensible) wants to be reliant on benefits so it doesn't make you an automatic Nazi to believe that benefits are not the only solution.

@hamstersarse - I don't believe benefits are the only solution but I cannot take seriously someone who deliberately plunges people into poverty with no safety net. Not everyone can work.

An increase in benefits is not the only way to improve people's lives. Cutting services or allowing inefficient ones to continue to bumble along is not the answer either. Sure Start was proven to have more than benefits to children's health and there is no will to run the Child Maintenance Service properly which would Aso improve lives for children.
In the case of the CMS, government pays the RP child maintenance and recoups it from the NRP via HMRC or Benefits system so that theres guaranteed income for the RP. Loopholes for the self employed are closed. It's ridiculous that they can tell CMS that they are on minimum wage but a credit check when they apply for a mortgage uses a different figure and this isn't flagged to HMRC or CMS.

I’m a single parent too- and was also on benefits for a period. I am so, so grateful to the system at the time that welcomed and supported me and gave me the chance to get back on my feet when I was vulnerable and scared. I feel- with quite a sense of certainty- that the majority of people on benefits are just like me- many of them working, a few of them needing that care and support more intensively and for longer than I did. I am so sad that this country has moved away from the compassion and understanding that once was shown to me. At that time, I was so proud of us and valued it so much. I have done well since then and know I owe a lot of that to the support I got when it was needed. Had I been ground down by the stress of poverty, constantly worried about how to manage and aware of the contempt this country now seems to feel for people like me, I doubt that success would have happened. As we are back to motivation again- punishment is way less effective than gratitude.

@PurpleDaisies

It’s almost as if he’s pissed. It’s a random stream of nonsense that seems to have come out of his head with no filter or edit.

This is very much hearsay @PurpleDaisies and don’t claim to know Boris Johnson personally, but a friend of mine who worked at City Hall during his mayoral tenure says it’s an open secret that he’s an alcoholic. I think it’s believable mostly because he sounds wankered- slurry and muddled- whenever he opens his mouth.

Well said BurnsherSmurfs. And I would much rather my taxes went to you and others needing help than in the back pockets of the PM’s mates.

@BananaPB

Much of the civil service / public sector needs a rocket up it's arse. The inefficiency has got beyond a joke - that is something I agreed with Dominic Cummings on.

I do not support the unlimited funding argument for the public sector that comes from the left. " We just need more money" . That may be true in some areas but it is not everywhere, yet it is the universal cry when performance is bad.

OP - Coming from people who claim to be compassionate and kind?
Nobody on this thread has described themselves as compassionate and kind. You are as adept at making up bullshit as Boris is.

I wonder if you're one of those people who is impressed because he went to Eton and has lots of money and clout; someone who hero worships people who they think are 'above' them in some imagined pecking order. Does that describe you, OP?