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Politics

Second EU referendum. How would you vote?

250 replies

JasAnglia94 · 11/07/2017 19:09

Sorry if this has been asked before.

I hear this statement made over and over again - that people would "vote differently if we had a EU referendum today". Would you though? Hmm

I was REALLY on the fence re. the referendum. I'm 23 and from a comfortable middle-class background.

In short, I think there is a surplus of people competing for jobs - both at graduate and service level - and that the situation is exasperated by free movement. I also think the problem of housing is made worse by free movement; that there isn't enough housing for people at the middle-lower end of the pay scale and that the number of people in this bracket is ever increasing.

However, I voted to remain last minute (after much persuasion). This was due to economic and environmental reasons. I don't trust the current government with environmental policy and I don't think price rises and fewer jobs (or jobs at lower pay) will help people like me. Confused

Would I vote differently now? No. However, I would definitely be more on the remain side than the leave (e.g. my shopping bill depresses me!). Sad

Was anyone else who was on the fence vote differently now?

OP posts:
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Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 08/10/2017 19:14

We don't owe you a bean, you hear?

I dont think they can hear

cdtaylornats · 10/10/2017 08:04

Was Remain - now Leave

fevversbetterout · 10/10/2017 19:14

Why? What has changed your mind?

SilverySurfer · 15/10/2017 14:14

I would, of course, vote Leave again but we won the referendum and a second one will not be held, despite all the whining and moaning from the losers.

Get over it - this is sooooooooooooooo boring [yawn]

Studlee · 23/10/2017 03:34

Definitely Leave!

user1471441738 · 24/10/2017 13:02

Given the chance, I would vote to eliminate Westminster from our political situation.

EU for foreign policy, defence etc and the currently devolved administrations with more power covering everything else.

I'd much rather have a federal europe than a unchecked conservative government making English rules apply to the rest of the countries in the UK.

I guess the buildings and English MPs could become an English parliament as they'd be missing that layer of government.

The actions of leavers (particularly in government) have really pushed me away from support for the concept of the UK.

With a simple choice of remain or leave. Remain, and as hard a remain as possible.

M4Dad · 24/10/2017 13:12

I firmly believe the EU is going to a totalitarian nightmare with it's inhabitants reduced to nothing more than slaves with democracy being nothing more than a distant dream.

It will be become of mirror image of the USSR.

The European Union is basically an attempt – a rather successful one so far – by the elites in European nation states to cooperate on usurping power, bypassing and eventually abolishing the democratic system, a slow-motion coup d’état.

M4Dad · 24/10/2017 13:12

Oh, yeah, I'd vote leave again.

AllMyBestFriendsAreMetalheads · 24/10/2017 16:07

I voted remain in the referendum. I don't necessarily think we should be in the EU but as the question was vague and there was no clear plan of action and I didn't trust the Tories to do anything but what was best for themselves I wasn't voting leave.

If there was a second referendum with clarity rather than vague bullshit promises I don't know how I'd vote. If it was exactly the same I'd vote remain again because now I definitely don't trust these Tories to do anything but what suits the Tory party.

OliviaD68 · 24/10/2017 19:17

Reading up on this thread and absorbing the large number of emotive responses. Not going to comment on these as we all have rights to our own emotions and feelings.

But how about economics? If we were all convinced it would cost each one of us £5000 per year, say in a No Deal scenario, would we still want to go through with Brexit? Note that the UK GDP per capita is about US$40,000 so it's a chunk of change ...

OliviaD68 · 24/10/2017 20:02

Interesting words from an MP , so let's assume hardship to get Brexit is required and £5k per year is not crazy ... Still want it?

Second EU referendum. How would you vote?
Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 24/10/2017 20:17

5k seems almost reasonable

Ive a horrible feeling its going to be more

OliviaD68 · 24/10/2017 20:25

@Rufustherenegadereindeer1

I don't think anyone knows how much it will be which is the scary part. Could be more true.

But notice how we've gone from politicians saying we'd get a 'cake n eat it ' deal to 'won't Armageddon.' How did that happen?

Knowing what you know now, do you feel Brexit was missold to you and others?

Like Keynes, should be be allowed to change our minds if the facts change?

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 24/10/2017 20:38

I think that the leave campaign lied or was at least very circumspect about the economics of brexit and the costs

And the remain campaign was a shower of shit and didnt address the economic costs enough either

OliviaD68 · 24/10/2017 20:49

@Rufustherenegadereindeer1

Agree on both points. Lies / unicorns on one side and complacency / incompetence on the other.

So what do we do?

I see some - like you and me - are trying to sift through the pigshit and learn what we can.

My view has always been the costs are too high. I think the EU is badly damaged as an institution but we are worse off on the outside and the EU can be fixed but only from the inside.

Say that the UK begins to realise its error. Can it change its mind given new information (like Keynes who once said: when the facts change I change my mind, what do you do sir?)?

Some say that is the essence of democracy - David Davis for example (yep, he did).

Others say that is undemocratic - the people have voted and we must leave.

What do you think?

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 24/10/2017 21:16

I think the EU is badly damaged as an institution but we are worse off on the outside and the EU can be fixed but only from the inside.

I agree with this

I dont want a 2nd referendum but i think that the pros and cons should be looked at by professionals or experts if people prefer (which probably means that politicians shouldnt be allowed anywhere near it)

If its the wrong thing for us to do then we shouldnt do it

But

I think its too late...we played our hand, and in such an obvious way that i dont think we will be able to remain in the EU without making changes to show 'good faith'

OliviaD68 · 24/10/2017 21:37

First ref should never have happened. But Westiminster is gridlocked about Brexit. It feels like most MPs know this is going to be a disaster but few have the courage to call it out.

So it feels like we need another one once the facts have all come out and unicorns buried ..

peteneras · 28/10/2017 02:08

I've said it before and I'll say it again:

How many referendums/referenda do you want?

One? Two? Five? Or Thirty-five?

There's only ONE referendum!!! - Period.

And for the sore losers - thankfully, they're in the minority - two important life lessons for you to learn:

  1. Don't vote on anything you're not sure about or do not understand;
  2. Facts DON'T change! - Circumstances can change.

So, back to school you go.

OliviaD68 · 28/10/2017 08:28

@peteneras

Facts don’t change? Interesting.

Tell us in your crystal ball what Deal the UK was expected to have pre referendum and what deal we are expecting now?

I recall something like: we will retain all access to the EU we have in place.

Now it seems we have have to fall back on WTO rules or some FTA like Canada. Either of which would be disastrous.

So given the BASIS on which the vote was made is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT the people have a right to changes their minds.

If you can’t see this you’re as mentally impaired as most other Brexidiots.

peteneras · 29/10/2017 13:47

You talk like someone, a self-appointed guru, who knows it all, seen it all, OliviaD68, the world’s foremost expert on everything EU and anyone who voted differently from you in the 2016 referendum are “mentally impaired” Brexidiots, etc.

Just who the fuck do you really think you are, OliviaD68? How come you are stuck in front of your keyboard in the comfort and safety of your home all day long, day in and day out giving us “lectures” on why Brexit is a bad idea, yada, yada,yada and more yada while you should really be out there doing something solid and more constructive, even assisting Messieurs Barnier and Juncker perhaps, in teaching the UK why it is a bad move to leave the EU.

So what’s the problem? Seems pretty obvious that you don’t like the UK leaving the EU and it’s doom and gloom ahead (for you) – what’s holding you back in uprooting from here and move to your beloved EU next door or to any of the other 27 countries? I would strongly advise you do that without much ado instead of wasting your time here asking for a second referendum, a third referendum, a forth, a fifth, etc. before the 27 shrinks down to zero in the not too distant future.

So all Brexiters are “mentally impaired” and stupid according to you. If truth be known, I haven’t come across a bigger imbecile than you for a long time - one that argues that facts can be changed for instance. And please don’t you try attributing this nonsense and put words in the mouth of a dead world’s most renowned economist of the last century. Your knowledge of macro economics don’t even come anywhere near the shadow of J M Keynes, a great scholar that hailed from a greater school!

It seems to me not only your logic and ability to look ahead is questionable but your comprehension of the English language is in trouble too. At the risk of repeating myself, there is only one referendum; and you cannot change facts.

Two plus two equals four and that’s a fact. You can’t change the answer to anything else but four as far as 2+2 goes. For someone to tell us that the fact has now changed and the answer now is five or anything other than four is no more a fact – it’s a fantasy, a fallacy, formulated by a fraud.

As to what kind of a deal we get from the EU, personally, I don’t give two monkeys about any deals with the EU. If I have my way, I’ll leave the EU in 5 minutes with absolutely no deals. 17.4 million Brexiters voted to leave the EU with 17.4 million different reasons. Not all of them worry about flinking future deals. To me there is a much bigger and brighter world outside the borders of the shrinking EU. The unelected thugs at the helm of the EU insist on punishing us for daring to leave and now demand a ridiculous ransom before they “deal” with us. I say, both the EU and the UK will be in contravention of the Bribery Act 2010 if they went ahead with this ‘money for talk’ nonsense.

And talking about punishment, I look around here in the house and outside. I see my Audi car (bought new) parked nearby together with the neighbours’ BMW’s, Mercedes’, VW Golfs’, one solidary Renault and a couple of Toyotas, etc. I reckon 80% of the vehicles are from the EU. And then I remember my previous VW Golf (also bought new) before it went up in flames due to an electrical fault. I came to the kitchen just to see my Bosch fridge-freezer, AEG cooker and washing machine (replacing a previous AEG that was too old) and my NEFF microwave oven. Oh, and I like to collect tools of all sorts (just like somebody might like to collect car badges etc.) and have over the decades made it a point to buy German products, e.g. Bosch, Wolfcraft, etc. Well, tell you what, I’m prepared to dump all this and get a Honda, Samsung kitchen, Milwaukee USA drills and Estwing hand tools (very polite – tools always have a sticker on the product which says, ‘ Made in the USA – Your purchase of this tool will keep jobs in America. Thank You!’

EU punish us? Punish my arse!

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 29/10/2017 16:27

Oh and again with the

If you dont like it leave the country comments

I thought people had moved on from that

Obviously not

TheElementsSong · 29/10/2017 16:30

Wow. Anger management issues?

OliviaD68 · 29/10/2017 16:35

@peteneras

Really happy you’re so wealthy with your high-priced foreign autos you paid for in cash. Makes us all swoon and wish we had the benefit and advantage of your company.

You got it right. Mostly empty headed animal food trough wipers supporting Brexit on here. Mothers from hamsters and fathers smelling of elderberries kinda stuff. And I count you in that category.

It’s not because you recognise Keynes in my writing that you are clever. Or even educated. Clearly economically illiterate in any case.

Speaking of Keynes and changing facts: British public is no longer supportive of Brexit. Fact. Tide is turning and thru a new referendum or just good sense, Brexit ain’t gonna happen. Ain’t. Gonna. Happen. You extremist knuckleheads have miscalculated and will get zilch.

To be expected from a disorganised group of zealous dotards (hope you don’t mind if I use North Korean lingo meant for Trump ...) responsible for getting us out of the EU.

Right, so I do lament the fact that I have not had a single interaction I would qualify as intelligent and informed on this platform in relation to Brexshit. Not one of you lot has been able to level a solid reason why we should go ahead whilst also ensuring we don’t become destitute.

It seems you lot are mostly of the blowhard variety with no content on the subject. Nada, Rien, Nichts, Niets, Niente.

Whilst I don’t claim to know it all, I have read a lot about Brexshit, free trade etc. Which is more than I can say for the vast majority of the trough wipers of your variety.

Not all Brexshitters are of the food trough cleaning variety, just ones on MN. There are some I view as furthering an intelligent debate. So am I not rabidly averse to hearing you lot out.

Now that we have done with the pleasantries and introductions I’d be happy to engage in an intelligent and informed debate. I don’t believe you’re capable given the hot air you’ve expelled thus far but I’m open to being wrong.

So go on. I’ll leave the advantage to you to propose a topic ... of the unemotive variety please.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 29/10/2017 16:36

theelements

Its the 'punish my arse' bit thats worrying me

TheElementsSong · 29/10/2017 16:52

Rufus I'm worried for his (it is a he right?) blood pressure and cardiac health, if that's his level of RAGE at being one of the Winners!

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