You should be ashamed of yourself if you vote Tory and…

[SasherinSuite]

Have children educated at state school
Use the NHS for ANY reason
Have children considering going to university
Have elderly parents who will require state support
Use public transport
Are a teacher, health professional, public sector worker
Live in rented accommodation
Are a low paid worker

You are a hypocrite of the highest order

Sadly our Labour MP has upset a lot of Labour voter who might have been prepared to grin and bear it with a supportive vote. He had taken an unpopular stance on a local issue. It should be a strong seat but a Labour insider in a neighbouring constituency has told me they are worried it's going to go.

Bolshy spot on 🙌🏻

The NHS is not some organised religion that we can't criticise. The people who work for it are not high priests and angels.
I want a free at the point of use service based on need. But I will not be blackmailed into voting Labour as the guardians of the sacred flame ffs.

Fair enough, Ginny, you have good justification for avoiding both parties. I have a lot of family that work in the NHS and they were pretty unhappy with how Labour handled it but still thought things were better than under the tories. Many vote lib dem but at a push would vote labour. Hell would freeze over before they voted Tory. As I said, lesser of two evils.

I get people not wanting to vote labour, it's the switching to conservative, especially the current bunch, that I don't get.

theducks

"However I just plead with you to put party politics to one side and please please vote with the NHS in mind. The NHS is one of our most precious resources and is one of the best healthcare systems in the world"

I quite agree with you. I am going to vote with he NHS in mind above any other issue or above party politics.

That is why I will never, ever, ever vote Labour again. Because I care passionately about the NHS and I want it to survive.

Most sensible post on the thread Ginny

I wonder how many people who vote conservative because they don't like Corbyn are going to look at the landscape after the election with Corbyn gone, a huge Tory majority and nothing anyone can do to stop them implementing whatever shitty ideas they like

Same as now then, with the bonus Corbyn is gone so Labour won't be whipped into supporting everything and can be an Opposition.

Freezing

*"I have been a nurse in the nhs for 8 years. Prior to that I was a student nurse for 3 years. I have 11 years of experience of the nhs.

Things are getting worse and worse and worse."*

Yep, I quite agree with you. FPI deals made by the labour government have been stripping funds from the NHS on a gobsmaking level.

If you look at what we would have available to spend on the NHS without these ridiculous loans they were tied into the NHS would be so, so, so much better off.

As it is, because of PFI, it is almost impossible to keep enough funding on services.

This is why I hate labour. They have destroyed the NHS. Fuck Iraq, Blair should be in prison for this.

The NHS is a bloated, bureaucratic, sickening frog and has been becoming so for a while. It needs total reform if you really want free at point of access care rather than the tinkering around the edges that successive governments have done - it's like talking about who applied the fanciest leeches trying to decipher quite where the rot set in. The fact is that the NHS was never designed to be as big as it has become.

Neither Labour nor the Conservatives can fix it as it is - they can just put it on life support it's just a case of whether it's an iron lung or a feeding tube. At some point it will collapse. One of the parties seems to be trying, possibly badly, to save some of the organs for donation and the other party seems to be against organ donation entirely.

The sad truth is that if only voters under 40 were voting then Labour would win.

Labour voters

Also, there is a conspiracy in the media to de-legitimise Jeremy Corbyn.

Watchdog to Attackdog

The NHS is a bloated, bureaucratic, sickening frog

That's actually not true. There is no actual concrete evidence for this. Unless you wish to provide some.

It's all a collection of anecdotes.

Ebb, based on my experience, have to say I agree. We are too afraid to have a grown up conversation about the NHS. Only recently, I had to make some financial sacrifices and pay for some treatment for my dh. Because NHS care was shoddy and fobbed my dh off with a shit and failing treatment that was cheap.
When I had a baby under the last Labour government, I would have been safer and better cared for by wolves in a ditch. Think Keogh Report bad.
I know this is just anecdata but it is my anecdata. I want Labour to be grown up about this thing it created in the 1940s.
Already thinking whether I can "go to the wall " and get my dd privately insured because I don't trust what we've got to take good care of her if she needs it. Thinking about it, I said.

"The sad truth is that if only voters under 40 were voting then Labour would win. "

What the fuck does this mean?

ginny PFI was started by thatcher, it is an entirely right wing concept as is outsourcing, and by the time labour came into power it was difficult/impossible to reverse, is the way the head of contracts within LA legal dpmt explained it to me.

I left the UK in 2014, and up to that point I hadn't used any public services the only time I used the NHS was to get a medical form signed off by a GP. But the GP billed my company for that so not sure that counts.

For what it's worth, most of the people I know who voted Leave were under 40. Even my 80 + year old Mum voted Remain.
Am I supposed to disregard their votes because I don't agree with them.
Grow the feck up, op.

Same as now then, with the bonus Corbyn is gone so Labour won't be whipped into supporting everything and can be an Opposition.

Why are people assuming that Corbyn will go after Labour's inevitable trouncing? He's stubborn enough to cling on, imo. He'd probably even win another leadership challenge. Anyone who cares about this country having an opposition should be joining the Labour Party now so that they can vote for someone more credible when the leadership comes up again.

Maybe if mandatory taxes were scrapped and replaces with a pay as you use "use tax" then the public services would get the money that was needed, and would be streamlined to what the people wanted.

Any services such as the military would be paid for out of money the government earnes through the sale of arms for example, or the taxation of imports etc

I'm under 40 - I wouldn't vote Labour if you bloody paid me to do so, they are a shower of shite as a party.

I have been voting since I was 18 and my vote used to go to Labour.

I'm dismayed by the current political parties, I'd vote LD but I'm not a fan of Farron either. Brexit is happening whether we want it or not so his stance baffles me and I feel leaves us insecure for the future. I'm not certain about hard brexit either.

I'm unsure about voting Conservative as I do value public services but they seem to be a party saying X has to happen and heres how we do it. Labour don't know their arse from their elbow at the moment, and Farron's stance leaves me thinking that he won't be able to undo Article 40, so will let the EU do whatever they want to us in order to be seen as punished but nice. That won't get us back into the EU.

Basically I'm a fair way under 40 but have no way of knowing who to vote for. So I don't it won't be an automatic labour win if every under 40 registered to vote and actually voted. Might vote green. Who knows.

Mogonfoxnight, I'm sure that's the sort of crap they tell themselves to make them feel better, but it doesn't wash with me. The idea that it was impossible for labour not to massively roll this out across the NHS once they got into power is utter bollocks. No-one put a gun to their heads, they decided, wilfully and ignorantly, to do this. They managed to reverse a lot of other right wing concepts they disagreed with, but somehow missed the 50 year economic car crash this was going to cause the NHS if they started pushing it out. It was labour who sourced and then signed contracts to build over 100 new hospitals in this way.

Maybe if mandatory taxes were scrapped and replaces with a pay as you use "use tax" then the public services would get the money that was needed, and would be streamlined to what the people wanted.

This would seriously screw over disabled people who use the NHS frequently but also suffer by being more likely to be in low paid employment, due to their medical issues.

I would welcome policies from other countries who fund their healthcare system - I believe some Nordic countries have wonderful healthcare but everyone pays a lot more in to benefit from it. I think an NI rise is overdue and could help the NHS a lot.

ginny i believe that you are wrong, and misinformed- my knowledge is only partial nowadays but I was involved in that kind of work, as a lawyer, and i can tell you that back then laws had been passed and huge changes had already been made within the system by the time labour got in - and over the labour reign it was being cut back - significant changes were made in the years before the tories got back in. It is more complicated than you think, but most certainly ideologically pfi and privatisation is an entirely tory concept.

Nordic countries have a much smaller population than we do. While the Nordic model of health care is interesting and may give us some pointers we need to bear that in mind. Whatever we do we need more money for it and Labour is currently shit on sums. They can't cost the price of a police OFFICER (not policeman ffs).
We have no idea what Brexit will do for our economy. Labour seem to be pretending it's not happening.

I know this is just anecdata but it is my anecdata

Why should we run a massive organisation like the NHS based on anecdata?

I've had good and bad experiences with the NHS. I can see actually that the biggest problem is that the NHS funding is not being kept up with demand.

Have children educated at state school

No Both privately educated. Pulled dd put when she was threatened with a knife and school refused to do anything ( the class went down from 30 to 14 pupils before this pupil left)
Ds was told in year 3 that if he didn't complete his work he would have to stay in every lunch and break time. Ds couldn't read or write so sat in every lunch and break time staring at a blank piece of paper. I was called in and was told he was being belligerent. Yes they realised he couldn't read or write but that was no excuse for not writing what was written on the board

Use the NHS for ANY reason

Just about to get the bill for dps operation which might extend his life because the Nhs wouldn't pay it.
The same NHS that missed his cancer so many times that by the time he was diagnosed he was lay on a trolley in A&E

Have children considering going to university

No . Why would I encourage my children to get into debt.

Have elderly parents who will require state support

No. Either dead or can take care of themselves

Use public transport

No.

Are a teacher, health professional, public sector worker

No

Live in rented accommodation

No. Worked 6 jobs for a year to save enough to buy my first place

Are a low paid worker

No Self employed. Do various things to make a living.

You are a hypocrite of the highest order.

Then does that mean I am not a hypocrite