You should be ashamed of yourself if you vote Tory and…

[SasherinSuite]

Have children educated at state school
Use the NHS for ANY reason
Have children considering going to university
Have elderly parents who will require state support
Use public transport
Are a teacher, health professional, public sector worker
Live in rented accommodation
Are a low paid worker

You are a hypocrite of the highest order

[KittyVonCatsington]

GinnyBaker

I totally agree with you. And don't forget the millions the NHS are still having to pay to contractors for a non-existent NHS Centralised Database because they fucked up on the contracts nearly 10 years later; the American companies that they employed are rubbing their hands in glee over excessive payments made for a product they never delivered because they weren't made to sign watertight contracts, on a product that had only been tested in America and who had no understanding of our NHS systems.

Oh yes, since when are Labour the saviours of the NHS?!?

[PigletWasPoohsFriend]

I am thinking they have no principles.

I have principles hence I won't vote Labour whilst Corbyn is leader.

HTH

[TheMonkeyandthePlywoodViolin]

If you have left wing principles you would never vote for this Government, you'd find another alternative.

[TheMonkeyandthePlywoodViolin]

For i was talking about Labour voters who turn Tory.

[TheMonkeyandthePlywoodViolin]

HTHATH

[WrongTrouser]

If I was a Labour supporter who really wanted to see a good result for the Labour party at they GE, I would be more concerned about trying to understand what is motivating ex-Labour voters to consider voting Tory (a decision that I can't imagine many will be taking lightly) than with trying to tell them what I think is motivating them or to tell them that they do not really have left wing values

[GetInTheFuckingSea]

Labour are the creators of the NHS. Without Labour there would be no NHS.

[relationshiptrouble]

As someone disabled and having to use the NHS more and more I'm extremely concerned how theGE result will directly affect me. I'll be voting Labour, not because of Corbyn, but because my local (labour) MP does a great job supporting the area.

[TheMonkeyandthePlywoodViolin]

Well you are just awesome then Wrong.

[TheMonkeyandthePlywoodViolin]

Am a bit too busy with RL.

And..you cant have left wing values and be a Tory voter

[KittyVonCatsington]

Labour are the creators of the NHS. Without Labour there would be no NHS.

See, this is the problem with some of the Labour supporters' stances-it doesn't matter that Labour created it (and they are bloody wonderful for doing so) if they continue to write blank cheques when they are in control of it. The issue I referred to and the one GinnyBaker talked about, always gets brushed under the carpet by some Labour supporters because "it's ok, at least they had good intentions".

I am not going to vote Tory but it really annoys me that some people blindly just follow an ideology/idea without actually digging further. The billions being paid out in contracts gone wrong have had nothing to do with the Tories but because people 'feel' the pinch during their tenure, they get the blame.

N:B I am only referring to the issue I discussed uphread; I know full well the Tories have fucked things up too. However, recent performance from the last 20 years from Labour has been pretty piss poor in a lot of areas remember that the first thing Tony Blair did when he came to power back in 1997 was to cut single parent benefit. All conveniently forgotten, eh!?

[WrongTrouser]

And there was silly old me thinking that we were on a time of huge political upheaval and that the left/Labour somehow aren't able to provide a meaningful (as in with any realistic chance of even forming a decent sized opposition, never mind winning) left-wing political choice. How silly of me - it's obvs all hunky-dory in Labourland and not complicated and definitely not in need of some fresh thinking. It's just that anyone who doesn't want to vote for them at the moment is rightwing. So simple.

I'll just go and do my knitting.

[GetInTheFuckingSea]

Actually I do agree that PFI is a disaster and one of the worst examples of bent cronyism. Also that Labour needs to get their act in gear. But there is no other party that represents working people - not just in their policies but in their constitution and membership. No other party can you give your vote to and have that vote empower shop stewards and union reps and people fighting tooth and nail - for no money - for the workers who vote them to speak for them.

[TheMonkeyandthePlywoodViolin]

Oh whatever.

[TheMonkeyandthePlywoodViolin]

Off to spend time doing something more enjoyable than bickering all day.

Have fun

[StillHungryy]

I'm likely to vote labour but

[Karen781]

What's needed is a strong and stable reply to your post

[mogonfoxnight]

wrongtrouser to answer your earlier post about Labour needing to listen and change, the reason given by the voters who do not want to vote labour this time around is Corbyn. This means that they are voting for people not policies (unless I am missing something). Which is fine, but there isn't much that can be done at this stage. In terms of tory vs labour vs any other party, I personally don't see much difference in terms incompetence or corruption but I do see a huge difference in terms of policy and ideology. Large law firms attract both right and left supporters, and this is something which came up in conversation in the office and we were always very civilised in our discussions - and what it came down to (when I talked about it, anyway) was ideology and whether people who needed help should get help or whether in really basic terms survival of the fittest was appropriate. The workers of the past are not really around so much anymore - Thatcher got rid of manufacturing, the mines, etc and labour markets were replaced by money markets. But what we do still have are those who need help for whatever reason, whether physical or mental health or other, and I believe that Labour are more likely to try to support them and empower them in real terms.

In relation to PFI as I agree with getin about cronyism, but what I would point out is that much of the activity was at a LA level and this is going to apply whether conservatives or labour are in power, as is the incompetence over wording of relevant statutes. You had extremely competent private sector suppliers negotiating directly with LA personnel who did not have the experience or the mindset. Total madness. This problem has not been solved. But the background changes and the legislation were set in motion far before Labour came into power - what they inherited was a done deal. But yes, I agree criticisms of Blair are more than fair too.

Getin has also pointed out that (huge generalisation coming) labour voters are intrinsically less likely to toe the party line than conservative voters (big or small "c") which doesnt help.

You sound very interested - are you sure you aren't secretly wanting to come over to the dark side? (*lighthearted**)

radishal you have a point, again, but I would say that if people who support labour policies don't vote labour, then that is the reason labour won't get in. Not Corbyn. And if so, the conservatives will get in.

Though i wonder if any winning party will find brexit a bit of a poisoned chalice. Especially now May has declared "war" with the EU.

Has anyone else noticed that the OP has disappeared?!!

[birdsdestiny]

I am afraid though that as leader of the Labour party, it is his job to ensure that people vote for him. So the responsibility lies at his door.

[NewBallsPlease00]

So what, you suggest I vote lib dem and get nothing, or labour with no gravitas higher taxes and same services
Do you honestly think corbyn will actually change things?

[Radishal]

If the Tories get in, it will be on Corbyn for being unelectable. And the party for sticking with him. Not on the people too horrified by him to elect him.

[scaryteacher]

I was a state school teacher, am married to a now retired military officer, used the NHS, we pay for ds to go to uni, (so no loans), my Mum is a pensioner, and we rent abroad. Ds went to state sixth form, paid for by HMG, as he boarded. As 'public' transport costs, i.e the train, then I feel no guilt at using it when in the UK.

I vote Tory, and have done since 1984 when I could first vote.

[TheMonkeyandthePlywoodViolin]

You dont even live here and vote Tory? Thanks.

Do you live in europe?

[scaryteacher]

I live in Belgium. We have a house in the UK, dh is a UK taxpayer and counted as a UK resident for tax purposes. As we have been abroad for less than 15 years we are allowed to vote, and as we will be returning in 2019, we need to vote. Given Dh's former profession as a nuclear submariner, I am hardly likely to vote Labour, as defence is one of the main drivers for me. I also voted Leave btw.

[Expat38matt]

This is a genuine question. My parent was a consultant surgeon with the nhs - ended up as a clinical director and retired early due to the stress of beurocracy !
So I'm obviously an nhs supporter but I want to know how the Labour Party can save it ? Where do the funds come from etc?
I'm not supporting privatization but how do We prevent that? It is a brilliant service but needs rescuing- and someone needs to pay for it - so if Corbin is saying he has the solution I'll vote for him but I want to know how he is going to do it