You should be ashamed of yourself if you vote Tory and…

[SasherinSuite]

Have children educated at state school
Use the NHS for ANY reason
Have children considering going to university
Have elderly parents who will require state support
Use public transport
Are a teacher, health professional, public sector worker
Live in rented accommodation
Are a low paid worker

You are a hypocrite of the highest order

[Bringmesunshite]

Not suggesting we run the NHS on anecdata. I am suggesting that Labour stops talking about it like an organised religion. I'm RC - I can spot that sort of bullshit a mile off.

[LauraMarling]

Love it.
So true!

[Believeitornot]

I am suggesting that Labour stops talking about it like an organised religion

How are they? I do recall that efficiency savings came in during the labour heads.

And I wish the Tories would stop talking about themselves like they're an organised religion. They come out with stuff like efficiency cuts which just make things worse.

Explain to me, why after years of cuts (7 years) that our country's financial position is little better? Why is growth so slow? Why is debt up? It's the equivalent of a priest trying to convince me that if I'm good I'll go to heaven.

I myself am not a labour supporter by the way.

And I've decided to educate myself on economics to get a better understanding of what's going on. And already I can se that the Tories approach doesn't work. Never has done and never will.

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

YANBU. Anyone who votes Tory is either a selfish twat, or as thick as pigshit. There is no excuse.

[Bolshybookworm]

Some NHS myth busting from the Kings Fund (which does not back a political party).

www.kingsfund.org.uk/topics/productivity-and-finance/nhs-myth-busters

[Bolshybookworm]

This is the crux, isn't it, believe. What have the conservatives actually done in the last 7 years? Can anyone point out anything that they've done that has benefitted the British population? Any sensible policies with tangible benefits? It's just been a mess. Why would you vote for that again? Their policies for education have been free schools and now grammar school ffs. They're just useless. That's what I object to. They're not even good on the business side anymore, which used to be their thing.

They're great on xenophobia and being friends with the Mail though. Which appears to be all you need to win over the British public these days.

[cdtaylornats]

You might get funding cuts with Tories but in a couple of years of Labour you'll have no funding at all.

[Freezingwinter]

Anyone care to inform me what the Tories have done that's benefitted the NHS in the past few years??

[Bringmesunshite]

The crux of it is Brexit. There is nothing else. In my view, if you voted Leave and hate the Tories you brought this shit storm on yourself. Corbyn did nothing to fight for Remain because he wanted to leave the EU too.
Like Steve Bannon he is a Leninist who wants to tear it all down and start again.

[SasherinSuite]

BTW I've not said anywhere that Labour is the cure for all ills, just that I don't see how you can vote Tory with a clear conscience that you are not shafting the next generation and thosre who do not have the funds to have options about schooling, healthcare etc.

[Badders123]

Gove, IDS and Boris have all stated on record that they want to privatise the nhs
So...vote Tory....vote to privatise the nhs
It's pretty simple really

[PaintingByNumbers]

if you voted leave or vote tory, and are not rich enough to self support over the next few/twenty years, that just makes you stupid, not hypocritical. shrug. its shit but we are high earners and should just about manage. im sick of trying to help turkeys who vote for christmas (and on that list I include labour mps who voted to allow this general election). its every person for themselves now.

[Bringmesunshite]

Op, not voting Tory either but Labour is not a credible alternative. It is a disgrace.

[PigletWasPoohsFriend]

if you voted leave or vote tory, and are not rich enough to self support over the next few/twenty years, that just makes you stupid, not hypocritical.

If you voted Corbyn as the leader of the party when numerous people and numerous backgrounds told you whT wouks happen then that makes stupid not hypocritical.

If you stand by a party whose Chancellor speaks in front on Communist and Ba'ath flags then that makes you stupid and hypocritical.

[elevenclips]

Who the hell do you think you are OP?

We live in a free country where we each choose who to vote for.

I haven't actually decided who to vote for but your high and mighty, judgemental OP make me want to reach for a blue rosette!

[Kropotkinator]

I think people who repeat the "strong stable economy" mantra perhaps haven't considered how any "strong" and "stable" economy might look outside of Milton Freidman's philosophical and economical outlook (which was embraced under Thatcher and continued under New Labour and under Cameron).

People are really busy trying to keep their heads above water, so generally take what is served to them and add salt and sugar to make it more palatable.

It's true, we do have a "strong and stable" economy, but it's strong and stable in accordance with Freidmanian (!?!) policy. And it's working as Freidman expected it to.

In other words we have a strong and stable Friedmaniam economy.

Unfortunately that kind economy also relies on (and states as part of the philosophy) the decimation of any public ownership, forbids the state making a profit (see council housing), relies on trickle down economics, and leads to an economy and society that is essentially very small Government, which socially promotes isolation over community, and which dismisses commonality in favour of social Darwinism.

All of these things are linked.

"The (Freidman influnced) economy" will be strong under Freindman (because the economy always belongs to those with the money) in the same way we could say that an (Islamic) state will always be strong under Islam, because the owners of the state, will be islamists and promote that ideology. You could of course insert any other religion.

The question is do we want to live under this kind of "strong economy"?

We demonstrably are all becoming worse off, meaning, collectively, as a nation we are actually losing control of "the economy" to a monied class. Even thought the GDP figures are distractingly positive. And I think we all know that! Both collectively, with the sale of publically owned assets, and individialy, with household debt skyrocketing the figures are there.

It will only continue. Freidman not only predicts it, but encourages it.

And then I wonder why can people not envisage a "different" kind of "strong economy" which isn't Friedman influenced if they doubt the ethical outcome of this type of "strong" and "stable" economy? I mean why keep moving if it's not working for you?

There are plenty of other philosophers to choose from. Plenty more people to base a vision on.

Seems bonkers to me (but that's just me).

Maybe the people who vote Conservative agree with the ethical outcome of it, and think social Darwinism is an acceptable societal outcome?

Maybe there has been no alternate view for such a long time people have forgotten?

Maybe the millionaire TV and Media moguls who promote this kind of economic ideology (read: Noam Chomsy's manufacturing consent), actually enjoy the benefits it gives them?

Perhaps it' all three. Perhaps it's none.

To me, at least, It doesn't seem to be very ethical.
But as to why people would vote for unethical "strong and stable" over an alternative ethical "strong and stable" , is really beyond me.

(caveat, I'm not saying that labour are promoting anything different, the have until now, just followed suit albeit with more mild spicing, it's just interesting that no one speaks of REAL alternative's and if they did, I highly suspect they'd be seen as bonkers by the media owners and treated as such)

[RufusTheRenegadeReindeer]

People who vote tory are not stupid or hypocritical

No more so than anyone who votes for another political party

There are a few less goady threads on mumsnet at the moment asking why people vote tory and debating like grown ups

[TheNaze73]

There are some terrible stereotypes about voters. I'm sure all LibDems don't wear sandals & likewise not all Labour voters are on benefits & chain smoke Amber leaf. Likewise, not all conservatives should be ashamed as you put it.

[SemiNormal]

This is like Brexit bashing all over again, some people clearly haven't learnt that attacking people over their vote is not the way to bring about change. Why not have a decent discussion asking why people are voting Tory, then letting them know what Labour policies are on different topics and suggesting why you think they are better. This character assassination of people who vote differently to you is bullish, smug and crass. It makes it seem as though you have no intelligent means of swaying people to vote differently, which in turn makes people believe there is no reason to vote differently because if there was then surely you'd have put forward that argument.

[Whitney168]

YANBU. Anyone who votes Tory is either a selfish twat, or as thick as pigshit.

Gosh, if only I'd heard that erudite and considered argument earlier, I would have changed my opinion.

[OlennasWimple]

Voters under 40 don't remember some of the appalling decisions made by Labour. including the use of PFI to fund public services, introducing academization, tuition fees for university, war in Iraq....

[mogonfoxnight]

olennas I am not sure about the under 40s, but I think appalling decisions could be levelled at both parties!

In relation to PFI, there was no money in the public purse, it really was a very dire situation as you will probably remember, and there had been decades of legislation and planning leading up to it. The labour model was to do with financing rather than outsourcing of responsibility (which had been the tory concept). For years the LAs had control of drafting the contracts and therein the problem - the devil in the detail.

[Mumski45]

I would like to think most people make their choices according to policies not bullying tactics. Op you are doing nothing to help the Labour cause by name calling, indeed you are more likely to make undecided voters go the other way.

[Theworldisfullofidiots]

believeitornot is completely right. If we all knew more about economics and what an unmitigated disaster the Tories are in terms of economic policy we might all think differently.
They are good at spin though.

[Badders123]

The problem I - and I suspect many other people - have is that as a life long labour voter I now have no party to vote for anymore.

If today's LE results have shown us anything it's that the brexit voting ukippers have gone back to the tories due to the promise of a hard brexit. That's what they want and although I think TM is coming across as an unhinged robot she knows that's how to get their votes.

Labour has been...well. Words fail me really. There is opposition. Corbyn is a joke.

Lib dems? Well, TF seems a decent sort and I like his voting record, but in my county and many others a vote for lib dem is just splitting the non Tory vote.

So.

What's the best I can personally hope for?

A vastly reduced Tory majority and a decent strong oppsition...I don't even care who it is anymore. LD/green/PC collation? Fine. As long as it's stops the tories from destroying the NHS and the education system.

If the tories get in in June with a big majority then - and I say this with utter certainty - we are headed for the American system of only those with money having access to decent healthcare and education.

Our once tolerant and proud land will become a dodgy tax haven for Saudi princes and the gap between rich and and poor will get ever wider.

Anyone who is poor, or relies on benefits who voted leave and or Tory....god help you.