AIBU article sneery towards english people.

[Thegruffalowswife]

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/12/english-can-stop-sneering-at-scottish-football-now

I don't like being referred to as "the scottish" or "the english" and this is the sort of article that irritates me.

If for example it had been entitled "the pakistanis can stop sneering" there would be outrage.

It would make sense. Gets Scotland out of English politics, gets rid of Barnett formula, no more subsidising Scotland (from their point of view). But they would rather berate Scotland for those points, then heap more scorn when given an alternative is proposed

I honestly would be surprised if there was a big appetite for getting scotland out of english politics. It is likely that some people might want that... but I don't think support for it is likely to be overwhelming ( probably growing) I live in scotland and am more than happy to keep the Barnett formula. I think you are overestimating the scorn heaping a bit, but the above article was ranty mcrantface I suppose.

As an English person, I suspect it's a fair generalisation in this article tbh.

And since the Brexit vote last June I have been looking at jobs in Scotland wondering if now's the time to move if it does come to pass that an Independent Scotland remains in the EU.

We are all different, but stereotypes are often created for a reason.

This is such a weird thread. What was the bit about the Pakistanis?

No, throughout the indy referendum, there was a fair heap of scorn piled on Scotland, and the vitriol from certain sections of the media from England towards Scotland was awful, especially the comments section where the general public could put their tuppence in. I was shocked even to read it on here (albeit in small quantities and usually shut down for the crap that it was) and on fb. I can't say i've ever read the equivalent of mainstream media in Scotland attacking England the same way. Thats not to say ive not read individuals posting racist/xenophobic stuff about England, but again, most sane minded people recognise them for the racist idiots they are and mostly call them out on it/disagree.

Yes. I agree.

Am not SNP voter but the media vitriol towards the SNP and Nicola Sturgeon is unbelievable.

And the general slating of Scots online "they can get lost" (like we all voted for independence) " we support them so they can go and starve". " theyd better hope the price of haggis goes up" etc etc.

The content of the article puts the comment in context (funny that).

To be honest, and generalizing hugely in the spirit of some of this thread, I think some factions of England seem to perceive slights and antagonism towards them from all directions. Speaking as an English person with Scottish family here. The said factions seem to have a large, collective shoulder chip with regards to the Scots, Irish, Europe and anyone else who threatens us with going about our daily business of putting the Great into Britain. So I guess we are going to see an increase in these kinds of threads now the murmurs of Indy Ref 2 become louder.

Not saying by the way that anti- English sentiment doesn't exist north of the border but there is very little effort made by aforementioned English factions to comprehend where this stems from and whether there may be the tiniest grain of truth in some reasons for resentment.

*Germans wouldn't notice. You don't notice until it's aimed at you. Germans are the pals of Sturgeon.

It may not have got as bad as the stasis, but it looks similar to how it started with national socialism and someone to blame for all their troubles*

What are you talking about?! Ordinary East Germans were the ones living in fear of being reported to the Stasi. I honestly don't think you can compare that situation to present day Scotland. Are you afraid of being reported to some secret police for dissent and hauled up in front of a court? Or that your home is bugged as you're seen as a subversive?

Cooper... you say that as though it is totally impossible and unrealistic. I'm not so sure.

What do you think the named person scheme was for.

Well no, it isn't impossible, but it did happen in east Germany and isn't happening to you, so...

Ok pigeon. I'm not going to argue with you.

And the general slating of Scots online "they can get lost" (like we all voted for independence) " we support them so they can go and starve". " theyd better hope the price of haggis goes up" etc etc.

You see, on my FB it's the other way around, I have to really bite my tongue, I suppose we all see the bits that offend us most. I have friends whose husbands work on the rigs who seem the most vitriolic.

I am English, Scottish and Irish, I live in England though. I have never heard anti Scottish comments up until the referendum when I did hear a few. Almost as if people were hurt by them wanting to be independent .

When I left the NHS I started a business which is private but works on behalf of local councils, it involves some telephone interviews. It benefits local communities to get correct information.
We have had to stop working in Scotland because so many people refuse to cooperate with us.

I have been told on several occasions that they won't help an 'English' company.

Still it's all anecdotal and I am sure that there are just as many stories going the other way.

Well no, it isn't impossible, but it did happen in east Germany and isn't happening to you, so...

Thanks pigeon. Exactly.

I feel angry on behalf of anyone who feels unwelcome in Scotland under the SNP but I work (in the languages depth at a university) with lots of people from former Soviet countries and the comparison is not only laughable, it's extremely insensitive.

Getting access to abortion under Ceaucescu versus Scotland offering access to Irish women. That's how big a difference we're talking. Nobody, as far as I know, is getting disappeared and put in an unmarked grave under Sturgeon's watch, whether or not you like her politics.

Oh and I agree Named Person is a hideous pipe of shite but it's not bugging houses and imprisoning people without trial.

"the comparison is not only laughable, it's extremely insensitive"

Unbelievably so when the OP was regarding an article about English people sneering at Scottish football capabilities. I still don't understand where Pakistanis come into it.

Fuck sake. The article is about football, not politics. Various things said from various thick football commentators over the years. No reason to go all ranty about it. And Kevin McKenna is inconsistent at best

"There was a poster who kept saying living in Scotland as a non-Scot under the SNP was like living with the Stasi. Not being funny, but I work with a few folk who lived in East Germany when things were pretty bad and I don't think they see the similarities! I voted no, but the amount of "

It was in response to the above that any comment was made acout the stasi I did not raise it as an issue, but I did say when she raised it that there are certain parallels with the early days of the rise of the national socialist movement.

Yes, that was my post and I respectfully disagree, gruffalo. I just think it's a really irresponsible comparison to make. Kind of sorry I ever brought some dafty's 'Scotland is basically the GDR' comment into this, but it was to illustrate how stupid and nasty things got last time.

To be honest, your comments about Nazism are way, way worse than that poster's Stasi comment. The two aren't even in the same league. I think we'll have to agree to disagree but I do think the comparisons are really tasteless.

I'm English and don't recognise this st all. Most of my Scottish friends however work variously in Scotland, England and Europe. Its not like they've never met an English person.

I think there is some anti English sentiment but it's not worth crying into your broth about it.

I was not the one who raised the Nazis,but...

You may think comparing is tasteless, but not completely unfounded and I can see why the other poster mentioned it.

It doesn't take too long looking in to their history to see the connection and the keen quisling during the war was certainly not the english, but a very well respected and commemorated snp superstar! Arthur Donaldson.

I am sure it would be nicer to not see the similarities, but the problem is in the past people were willing to dismiss these things until they finally realised and it was too late. The Nazis were extremely popular on the rise to power, by the time the population realised what had happened they were too scared to speak out.

I have said that the snp are not as bad as the Nazis. They might be similar to what the Nazis were in the early days, before they laid the way for their hideous crimes, which they neatly legislated for.

It is incredibly naive to believe that it is somehow unrealistic that similar could occur in the future.

They centralise the hell out of everything and they are very illiberal.

Fucking hell. I doubt old Kevin McKenna had this in mind when he wrote that article.

gruffalo you did! You said parallels with national socialism after I mentioned the Stasi! Trying not to be petty here but you were indeed the one who brought up national socialism.

The Nazis and the Stasi, just by way of clarification, are not the same thing. Nazis = 1933, Hitler. Stasi = East German secret police in postwar GDR. And the Nazi comparison is way worse than the Stasi one. I'm feeling like a broken record here but just want to make the difference clear.

I have said that the snp are not as bad as the Nazis. They might be similar to what the Nazis were in the early days, before they laid the way for their hideous crimes, which they neatly legislated for.

Will you get a grip. And remind yourself of the horrors of the holocaust. Stop chucking this stuff about just to win some political point.

Yes but you are missing the point Cooper...

YOU raised that isue not me. I can see parallels. I was talking about a football article,which I found the title to be stereotyping.

You launched off in to another planet with your Stasi coments so the thread took another turn. As for the SNP, I'm afraid my view of them is extremely negative and I do not know what the other poster said, but I think I can probably understand the sentiment behind it.

I am sure there are many Scottish people who can see straight through the likes of the SNP, and I'm hoping the SNP have had their day.

Now.... back to the article?

Oh, were we mixing up Stasis and Nazis. Lovely. blinks

Okay, back to the article then. Do you follow Scottish football? Ever discuss it with your English pals, or hear it discussed when you watch it on telly?

I ain't missing any point, thanks gruffalo

Godwin's Law. Every time.

I don't discuss football.

I prefer rugby, but generally find football commetators and many other sport commentators sneery in all directions.

I have only ever heard someone be sneery about scottish football once when I said scotland was playing when I was about 10 and my friends dad said. Do scotland do football then? I expect english sports commentators are often sneery a bit like the scottish ones. Usually in sports if England are not playing, but one of the other 3 in uk are I found english people often support them and cheer them on in a we lost but our mate is still in with a chance sort of a way. (They are not like that if 2 rival clubs play in england though, similarly to rangers and celtic I suppose) I am not easily Identifiable as scottish so I expect it is not out of sensitivity towards me.

If scotland and england are playing I support both.
If any of our 4 nations are playing against someone else I support whichever of our 4 nations.

I have experienced a lot of the talk of "support whoever is playing against England and berate them and sneer if they lose up here and have found that a bit disappointing, but you can't make someone support a football team! I am quite sure it is not the norm to behave like this, I have just had the misfortune of meeting some people that do.

It is after all up to people what teams they want to support. That is half of the fun I guess.