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Original poster

Trump (Part 7)

999 replies

claig · 21/12/2016 00:37

Even more Trump.

There may be 4 years of this.
Try to keep it lighthearted and not snide, please.
It's Christmas.

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6
DarthPlagueis · 02/01/2017 12:50

I don't think it was a revolution though, its funny to see that you quote all of these people who you dismissed previously now that it suits you to do so. More expediency and showing of lack of critical filters.

"They called the people thick, uneducated, bigots and probably bastards as they drank champagne in their clubs and laughed with the elites who mocked the ordinary people"

You mean like Farrage, Banks et al at the Ritz whilst calling people like you "low grade".

Lweji · 02/01/2017 12:51

I think most people who were for Remain and/or against Trump knew perfectly well the enormity of a Brexit win or a Trump win.
It's the Brexiters and Trumpeters who don't seem to fully realise what the enormity is.

Funnily enough the people on the other side, or who lost, don't call them enemies.

Original poster
claig · 02/01/2017 12:51

'Does Peston know about your no. 1 fan obsession with him? I think 'Peston' is going to become Claig's Word of 2017.'

It is the first time I have mentioned Peston. I actually like him, he is one of the good commentators. His heart is in the right place, he is with the people.

He says "are we – you – the people"

because he knows it was us rather than him, but he was still with us in spirit.

Thought 2016 was turbulent? Trust me, the revolution is just beginning
...
So the most serious danger to May's grip on office, as it is to all Western leaders, are we – you – the people. The most important phenomenon of the past year has been the anger felt by millions about a world they rightly perceive to be run for the benefit of a privileged few, and not for them.

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-4079270/Thought-2016-turbulent-Trust-revolution-just-beginning-true-cost-Brexit-backlash-France-new-cold-war-2017-set-far-bumpier-writes-ROBERT-PESTON.html

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Kaija · 02/01/2017 12:54

"
Why does James Forsyth, Oxbridge, political editor of the Spectator say the Establishment "fears" the coming elections?"

You are hoping that far right parties like Marine Le Pen's and Geert Wilders' will win power in Europe? Or do you fear it?

Original poster
claig · 02/01/2017 12:55

'its funny to see that you quote all of these people who you dismissed previously now that it suits you to do so'

I am quoting them to show how all the Establishment commentators, all the Oxbridge teams, have had to belatedly bow to the people for fear of looking ridiculous and stupid if they still fail to read the tea leaves like all the people have done. They are now jumping ship before it is too late and joining the people. Soon they will start mocking the elites with gleeful abandon just as they mocked Trump when they thought the elites would beat him.

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Original poster
claig · 02/01/2017 12:56

'You are hoping that far right parties like Marine Le Pen's and Geert Wilders' will win power in Europe? Or do you fear it?'

I hope the EU breaks up and all European people are free again, free of the elites and their Brussels bureaucrats.

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Kaija · 02/01/2017 12:58

You referred to the elections. Do you want to see the far right take power in Europe? Because that's what your post suggested.

Original poster
claig · 02/01/2017 13:00

'You mean like Farrage, Banks et al at the Ritz whilst calling people like you "low grade".'

It is a bit "low grade" to spell Farage as Farrage. Farage didn't call people like me "low grade", he called the people on the UKIP National Executive low grade and said he was sick of dealing with them and would be free from them now. You have been taken in by BBC media spin about what Farage meant. Those are the same type of tricks they used to misrepresent Trump to people who weren't following what was really going on. That is the teams at their finest.

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Original poster
claig · 02/01/2017 13:02

'Do you want to see the far right take power in Europe? Because that's what your post suggested.'

If that is what it takes for the EU to end, then I don't mind. But it is not up to what I want, it is up to the French and Dutch and Italian and European people what they want. I want what the people want and the people want to beat the elites and I agree with them.

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Kaija · 02/01/2017 13:04

Thank you for clarifying that you are happy to see the far right in power. It puts these threads in a very clear context.

DarthPlagueis · 02/01/2017 13:05

Oh pointing out spelling now are we? Pedantry on internet forums is the last refuge of someone who can't defend their point.

Without the people of the UKIP national executive there would be no Brexit, not great victory of the people.

I'm not taken in by any spin, which is why you are so easy to dismiss with your shifting definitions and to whom they apply.

Roussette · 02/01/2017 13:08

It is the first time I have mentioned Peston

My point exactly He's mentioned very many times by youand we've only been back discussing for a few hours! .. and will be mentioned ad nauseum no doubt

Kaija · 02/01/2017 13:11

Here's another quote from the master propagandist which is looking ever more relevant to these "people" vs "elites" threads:

"The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly - it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over."

DarthPlagueis · 02/01/2017 13:12

I'm sure you've mentioned Peston before as being part of the "establishment" and derided him. Just because he says things now that sound a little bit like what you think, you like him.

Just like you criticism all of the MSM and now make appeals to authority using them at every turn.

Original poster
claig · 02/01/2017 13:13

'Without the people of the UKIP national executive there would be no Brexit, not great victory of the people. '

I disagree. Without Farage, there would be no Brexit and if he calls some of the people on the UKIP National Executive "low grade" then, as he knows them all and I don't, I am happy to take his word for it.

'you are so easy to dismiss with your shifting definitions and to whom they apply'

I have no "shifting definitions". I am explaining to you in different ways why the 2016 Trump revolution happened and explaining why Trump voters were voting against the elites and why it was a victory for the people over the elites. You are stuck in BBC mode by thinking that Trump is elite because he is rich . Trump voters voted against the elites and voted for Trump because Trump was against the elites.

"That distinction belonged to the millions upon millions of everyday Americans who found in him the bare-knuckled brawler they were desperately seeking"

They didn't vote for just another Cameron, Bush, Clinton or Blair. They voted for someone who defied the elite rather than kowtowed to them.

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Kaija · 02/01/2017 13:15

Your definitions are shifting constantly, Claig. The people, the elites, the establishment. Slippery as eels.

Original poster
claig · 02/01/2017 13:16

'"The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly - it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over."'

But that is arrant nonsense, Kaija, because you confine yourself to no more than two points, repeat them over and over, with the result that you convince no one and make yourself look stupid.

If that is "brilliant propaganda" you should write for the Guardian.

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DarthPlagueis · 02/01/2017 13:18

See there, you are stuck in BBC mode, is a dismissal of me because you are attacking my position. I am most certainly not easy to convince of anything.

You however it seems are. Its interesting to note that lots of people are back at work today ;)

Original poster
claig · 02/01/2017 13:19

'Just because he says things now that sound a little bit like what you think, you like him. '

I have always liked him because his heart is in the right place. Just because I disagree with him on lots of things, doesn't mean I dislike him. I disagree with many posters on here, but there are only a tiny few that I actually dislike.

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DarthPlagueis · 02/01/2017 13:21

Fair enough.

I'll tell him he has fans on MN next time I see him

Original poster
claig · 02/01/2017 13:22

'you are stuck in BBC mode, is a dismissal of me because you are attacking my position'

No, it was a cheap shot at the BBC. I like to take the piss out of the BBC, even though I like it, because I like taking the piss out of the Establishment in the year of the people's revolution of 2016 and now 2017

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DarthPlagueis · 02/01/2017 13:25

See there you go, with the establishment again.

Trump IS establishment.

Brexit even more establishment.

Its just another part of it, in essence Donald Trump/Brexit is the victory of the Tea Party.

Kaija · 02/01/2017 13:28

Claig, it is you that repeats the same one or two points, hour after hour, day after day, week after week, month after month. Same words over and over again. People. Elites. Establishment. Ad nauseam. The evidence is right here. Perhaps you only do it for your own entertainment but it's textbook propaganda.

Original poster
claig · 02/01/2017 13:35

'Trump IS establishment.
Brexit even more establishment. '

Well we will have to disagree there. I am anti-establishment and was for Brexit and Trump, partially for that reason. Trump fans were anti Establishment. You support the Establishment political class, I don't, but if you want to understand the 2016 revolutions and earthquakes as my favourite commentator Robert Peston described them as just being support for the Establishment, then it is pontless arguing it. If you want to think that I vote for Establishment politicians or Trump fans, who voted for an outsider with zero political experience, mocked and called "unfit" to Be President by the entire world's Establishment political class, support the Establishment, then it is best if I agree with you as discussion on it is pointless.

"Donald Trump Is Elected President in Stunning Repudiation of the Establishment"

www.nytimes.com/2016/11/09/us/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-president.html?_r=0

All I know is that we the people won with Brexit and then with Trump. We beat the Estalishment and all their teams and as Trump said "there will be so much winning that you will get sick of winning and will say please Mr Trump, no more winning".

We won and it ain't ended yet. They lost and were crying and we are laughing.

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birdsdestiny · 02/01/2017 13:36

But none of those articles show me what it is the people have won. You keep talking about victory but not telling me what you or 'they' have won. If nothing changes then as I keep saying the people may as well have voted for the winner of the x factor. The elite as you call them are still drinking champagne in their clubs. You have been conned. But I am not so worried about you, I have a sneaking suspicion that you will be fine. And I too, as a ' servant of the elite' will be fine. I am saddened at Brexit and Trump but actually I will be fine. My 11 year old daughter went on a European trip last year funded entirely by the EU. This year I will pay for her to go to Europe because I can. And those who can't fund a trip to Europe will stay at home. Because post Brexit I see no great rush to fund opportunities for children in the north east. But as long as they won that's all that matters.