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Politics

Trump (Part 2)

999 replies

claig · 25/11/2016 16:26

More on the meaning of Trump, the Trumpsters and Trumpism

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Roussette · 26/11/2016 08:29

Just passing through... ...

Wanted to fist pump and give respect to kaija, squishy and llewj.. keep on at it my friends. The previous thread was getting to be manned just by claig and her cronies so I'm glad you rationals are still pointing out how ludicrous some of the statements are on here. And all done without insults (not sure where that allegation came from...I've kept up with the threads and the only insulting word which needed deletion by MNHQ was from Spin)

Chrisdigits - anyone can quote from anywhere and I'm really not sure that you and others have religiously notated your sources each time you all post.

InformalRoman · 26/11/2016 08:36

Actually Chris, there were a number of other sources, including:

Doncaster Free Press
The Independent
South Yorkshire Times

Although the Guardian summarised it quite neatly.

I didn't include the Private Eye investigations into his dodgy dealings though - but I can if you like?

MissMarplesHat · 26/11/2016 08:51

Ha, I see you're posting D Fail snippets! No thanks.

Kaija · 26/11/2016 09:11

It's all very interesting, but I hadn't realised it was Ed Miliband that Trump was up against. Guess you learn something new every day with Claig.

Chris1234567890 · 26/11/2016 09:19

So the pressure from wikileaks gets ramped up again.

www.ibtimes.co.uk/wikileaks-releases-500-files-allegedly-showing-us-arming-funding-yemeni-forces-1593474

Time pointed out a month ago, how the US Government could be charged with war crimes simply for their support of Saudi airstrikes.....

time.com/4531649/yemen-conflict/

Looks like Hillary and Co were in far deeper than even we all thought. No wonder election protests and civil unrest remain encouraged and positively fuelled.

squishysquirmy · 26/11/2016 09:25

Chris: "No wonder election protests and civil unrest remain encouraged and positively fuelled" - Are you talking about the anti-Trump protests? I think Hilary, Obama and the democrats have done quite a lot to try to calm things down. Unlike Trump, who before he won was promising to stir up trouble if he lost.

claig · 26/11/2016 09:39

The year of 2016 set to a Muse "Uprising" soundtrack. 2016, the year the people rose up and took the power back.

We owe it all to the Americans 4 Trump. Long live America, long live freedom and free speech. Long live the people.

But we must not forget ourselves, the great British people, who stood alone when the whole world bleeders were against us, when they said we would get "war in Europe", when they said "it will be the end of Western Civilization", when they said they had "Punishment Budgets" lined up for us if we wanted our freedom back.

but "they will not control us" while Trump is in charge. Their game is up, their spin is over. But, what's this, Blair is back? How desperate can they get! Grin

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Chris1234567890 · 26/11/2016 10:21

Squishy, Jill Stein has just been stitched up like a kipper by the Clinton camp. We will have to await Jills memoirs, written from her trailer in 20 years time (or possibly sooner depending how bitter shes about to get) to blow open the back room shenanigans going on at the moment.

This from Hillarys concession speech , in typical form, because of course, the losers are on the side of the 'right' and the good.

"This loss hurts, but please never stop believing that fighting for what's right is worth it.
It is, it is worth it. [Cheers and applause]
And so we need — we need you to keep up these fights now and for the rest of your lives."

Then her next appearance at the Childrens Defence Legue (whom Im sure were thrilled to provide a political platform)

“The divisions laid bare by this election run deep …. But please listen to me when I say this: America is worth it,” said Clinton. “I urge you, please don’t lose heart, don’t give up on the values we share,” she said. “I ask you to stay engaged, stay engaged on every level,” said Clinton. “That’s how we get through it"

The divisions are worth it. Thats all anyone needs to know about Hillary Clinton.

squishysquirmy · 26/11/2016 10:26

Claig,
I am going to post this again because it's a much better soundtrack:

Smile
Chris1234567890 · 26/11/2016 10:27

aaaah, Trump the Dictator again .....Hmm

Kaija · 26/11/2016 10:28

Erm, the sentence

"The divisions laid bare by this election run deep …. But please listen to me when I say this: America is worth it"

Is not remotely the same as:

"The divisions are worth it"

Not even close.

squishysquirmy · 26/11/2016 10:32

In her concession speech she also said: But I still believe in America, and I always will. And if you do, then we must accept this result and then look to the future. Donald Trump is going to be our president. We owe him an open mind and the chance to lead. Our constitutional democracy enshrines the peaceful transfer of power.

We don't just respect that. We cherish it. It also enshrines the rule of law; the principle we are all equal in rights and dignity; freedom of worship and expression. We respect and cherish these values, too, and we must defend them.

I am genuinely surprised that you have a problem with "staying engaged" and "fighting for whats right" (It was obvious to me that in the context of her speech "fight" was not meant in violent way), because you seem to be very concerned about free speech and the right to hold diverse political opinions. I also thought you hated things being taken out of context.

squishysquirmy · 26/11/2016 10:46

"aaaah, Trump the Dictator again"
I don't think Trump is a dictator, I think he would love to be one
The below are some clues:
Willfully spreading conspiracy theories to discredit opponents.
Threatening to "lock up" political opponents.
Standing in front of fervent rallies inciting criminal acts.
Exploiting security fears to remove civil liberties.
Demonisation of human rights, liberalism and feminism.
Scapegoating unpopular minorities.
Nostalgic nationalism.
Vastly increasing military power.
Furious reaction to media criticism, and attempts to bully the press.

Chris1234567890 · 26/11/2016 10:49

rare.us/story/the-united-states-is-sleepwalking-into-a-hot-war-in-yemen/

Can the US afford to wait till January for Trump?

We're in a day by day situation now, having ramped up the McCarthyism, having ramped up the 'we dont have to accept democracy' both here and in the US, Merkel already making the same noises in Germany in an attempt to pre-empt the 'fake' dissatisfaction of the German electorate and France appearing to go for an alternative solution of 'new candidate, same nationalism, just not called Le Pen. The day to day destruction of western democracy and free speech is simply astounding, and for what? Maintaining control.

squishysquirmy · 26/11/2016 10:52

"having ramped up the McCarthyism, having ramped up the 'we dont have to accept democracy" : I don't know what you're referring to here.

fourmummy · 26/11/2016 11:18

Squishy - re my theories from the previous thread: You may think that my philosophical theorising is 'only theory' but you can't take the philosophy out of politics (or anything, really. We live and breathe these concepts on a daily basis). Indeed, that's why they group those subjects together on all the best courses at the best universities Wink

To take my theorising to its conclusion: We've got as far as - multiculturalism can't ever work because there's no way to prioritise one set of values over another (other names for this phenomenon are relativism, or any system that equalises everything without being able to foreground one thing over another). All societies, in order to function, need to prioritise one set of values over others. They need to be unitary (one law, one education system , one medical system, etc.This does not mean that you can't do your own thing or believe what you want to believe as we've seen in communist societies to date, where you even had to dress the same. This means that everyone needs to subscribe to a singularity on the fundamental substantive issues - everyone is equal before the law, in education, in medicine).

Several systems can produce a unitary society - the difference is whether the unity is produced in a top-down or bottom-up way. Top-down includes imposition of unitary values via the State (communism), charismatic individuals (fascism), groups of rich individuals (oligarchy), theocracy, etc. Bottom-up involves democratic processes. My understanding is that top-down imposition of a society's basic philosophy rarely works well for ordinary people because it goes against free will and can only be achieved via totalitarianism, but is obviously desirable to those doing the imposing . Globalisation was an attempt at an imposition of a set of values on people on a mega-scale and went against democracy. This is why we are where we are.

In my darkest moments, when I see the attempted thwarting of Brexit, the USA recount and other such things, I see the disruption of democracy and a move towards totalitarianism imposed on us via top-down processes. I find it difficult to believe that others can't see this.

claig · 26/11/2016 11:22

"François Fillon attacks 'Paris elite' before second-round primary

Conservative who is favourite to win on Sunday dismisses ‘tiny microcosm who think they know everything’

www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/25/francois-fillon-attacks-paris-elite-before-final-nomination-vote

The elites are now desperate. They have a two-pronged strategy. The elites pretend to attack the elites in order to try and fool the people that the elites are on our side. Soon the Channel 4 News teams will probably be instructed to attack the elites in order to convince the people that they are with us and not just serving the elites with spin and misrepresentation. The elites are crafty and they hire spinners (teenage ones are best, they have found, because they actually believe the spin) in order to confuse the people.

But the other part of the two-pronged strategy is to call everything that challenges the elites "fake news". The spinning teams on the news channels are instructed to call anything that critciises the elites "fake news" and say it is all down to some 16 year olds in Macedonia who can't speak English apart from some four letter words they picked up off a rap song. Only if the Ministry of Truth has officially sanctioned criticism of the elites can it be deemed "real news" as opposed to the Macedonian teenage stuff, so the elites have told Francois Fillon to start saying that he is sick of the "Paris elites" as loudly and as often as he can, because times are desperate for the elites and Trump takes over on Jan 20 and the elites know that then their game is up.

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Kaija · 26/11/2016 11:24

You missed out the press from your list. It is remarkable how closely the concerns of the apparently "bottom-up" anti-EU movement mimic the front pages of the Mail, Express and Sun.

Trump (Part 2)
Kaija · 26/11/2016 11:27

Claig have you remembered to take your tablets this morning?

claig · 26/11/2016 11:34

I don't trust what is in tablets, have you listened to the lyrics of Muse's "Uprising'? I just stick to free range eggs in the morning.

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Southallgirl · 26/11/2016 11:37

Of course NSA has the 'deleted' emails. It would be odd if they did not!

SwedishEdith · 26/11/2016 11:39

I still don't know where the majority who didn't vote for Trump fit in. They're clearly not part of the 'Illustrious People's Army' and not part of 'the elite'? So, who are they? What simple term do we use for them?

Is 'the elite' anyone with more money/education/influence than you who disagrees with you?

claig · 26/11/2016 11:42

Southallgirl, I agree. They know all about Clinton, every last dot and detail.

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claig · 26/11/2016 11:46

'So, who are they? What simple term do we use for them?'

Some analysts have referred to them as the "sheeple". But that is not accurate. They clearly aren't the elite, but they believe the elite, they believe Tony Blair, they believe the 172 and their candidate, Owen Banter. They believe Channel 4 News because they trust the elites. But they are now in a minority as the populist rebellion against the elites spreads acroos Europe and the US.

'Is 'the elite' anyone with more money/education/influence than you who disagrees with you?'

No, the elites are tiny in number. Tony Blair is not part of the elite, he just serves them, he carries their bags and does their soin and bidding. The Oxbridge teams aren't the elites, they are just guaranteed newspaper columns and book deals if they serve them.

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