Trump (Part 2)

[claig]

More on the meaning of Trump, the Trumpsters and Trumpism

Claig, you're contradicting yourself even more than normal.
On the collapse of the EU: "No(......)I have got relatives living in EU countries and it will be a disaster for millions of people and probably for us too as we are so closely linked to the EU economy and it will probably lead to war"
There was zero ambiguity in the question so I don't see how you could have misunderstood.

A page on: "Yes, I do want the EU to collapse, and I think it definitely will in less than 2 years now."

And then this: "so that we can all be free to express our thoughts, say what we like, take the piss out of any politician or policy and so that Germaine Greer is no longer banned from universities which is just the beginning of removing all our free speech on lots of different issues"

Five minutes later:
"May better shut them up"

.... You don't want us to be free to take the piss out of all politicians, do you? Youlot are all for free speech .... but only if we agree with you!

Oh and last thread you were adamant that "elites" refferred to the 0.7% (weirdly specific) richest people in the world.

correction should be: share a set of values, behaviour and culture.

Spinflight, could you stop accusing me of slurring you and calling you nasty names when I have done no such thing? You can't find any examples.

And by the way, in a democracy we have to accept the result, yes (nothing wrong with investigating fraud if both sides think there are discrepancies though, is there?). We do not have to sit back for 4 or 5 years and ignore what our politicians are doing. We do not have to put up and shut up if we do not like what they are doing and how they are conducting themselves in office. We should be free to criticise our leaders, which is all we are trying to do on this thread...... That's the free speech Claig is so passionate about!

I guess this will be taken down as fake news not approved by the party then...

www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1_rNT3k2ZXB-f9z-2nSFMIBQKXCs&ll=49.670874923788304%2C10.518305617871192&z=6

The vast majority will never be reported in the national press, and therefore are fake news.

Brilliant Claig! Absolutely spot on. I had BBC R4 World at 1 on yesterday lunch (Im an Archer fan.....I know, dont judge me) and it was brilliantly funny. Heres the news podcast, and its around 28:40 where the macedonian student says, "I was the one who started the story that said Hillary wanted Trump to stand for President" (sic)......

Wikileaks. Macedonia. Phew, for a minute there I thought it was those damned peskie commies.

Thats the only fake news item they identify in the piece. All the way to macedonia, all that air time, at UK tax payers expense. Thats how powerful wikileaks is. They really really are desperate.

If my link doesnt work, its BBC4 world at 1 28/11/16

http://aod-pod-uk-live.edgesuite.net/mpgmp33med/2c97c59458907ff50158ab5f2ba06657audioompgmp33med.mp3?gda=148042998334002ab0370a19ebb377dea0b629448f4

'Claig, you're contradicting yourself even more than normal.
On the collapse of the EU: "No(......)I have got relatives living in EU countries and it will be a disaster for millions of people and probably for us too as we are so closely linked to the EU economy and it will probably lead to war"
There was zero ambiguity in the question so I don't see how you could have misunderstood.'

Because we were discussing the EU banking collpase that would follow the collapse of the Euro and that would be a disaster for millions and millions of people. That is what I thought you meant when you said "EU collapse" and "bit mean".

I am in favour of the EU collapsing because I want a free Europe and a free world with no unaccounatble bureaucrats who are servants of bankers lording it over me, Fred in Veles, Macedonia or anyone else in Europe because just like Trump in America I am sick to the back teeth of being "led by very, very stupid people, very, very stupid people", particularly the idiots from Oxbridge that the elites lumber us with, geeks, nerds and wonks like Ed Miliband for example. I prefer Farage, I agree with Fred in Veles "American people love Mr Trump. People in EU love Mr Farage"

"Spinflight, could you stop accusing me of slurring you and calling you nasty names when I have done no such thing?"

I haven't mentioned you by name wishysquirmy, though if the cap fits....

Oh dear, faulty thinking again which sounds awfully like "dreadful, but the wimmin were out at night weren't they?"

That is absolutely not what I was saying South, and despite two threads full of insults (mostly from Spin), suggesting so is the most offensive accusation any of you have managed to come up with. Well done. I tried to speak to you with respect.
There is no way anyone could leap to that conclusion from what I wrote.

I have never, ever blamed women or children for that happening to them. In fact that sort of nasty victim blaming is far more likely to come out of nasty right wing papers like the mail, Breitbart or that website.

I'm not here to defend the Guardian either - like I said I am always disgusted by any attempts to throw women under the bus for the sake of any cause.

You think the Alt Right give a shiny shit about women's rights, or do you think they just want to bash Muslims?

There was nothing wishy washy about what I said either .
I am interested in protecting "all" women, from all rapists, and I am sick of women's bodies being used as a battleground by both the right and, at times, the left.

'Five minutes later:

"May better shut them up"

.... You don't want us to be free to take the piss out of all politicians, do you? Youlot are all for free speech .... but only if we agree with you!'

I want all ordinary people to take the piss out of teh idiots who run us. I am with Trump 100%

"we are led by very, very stupid people, very, very stupid people"

and the sad thing is these incompetent teenage wonks and SPADs from Oxbridge think they are clever, so the sooner we take the piss out of them, the sooner they will be replaced by some competent people to run us.

I agree with the UK businessman 100% that Theresa May should shut these incompetent idiot Oxbridge MPs up who keep criticising Trump because they are harming the interests of the entire British people and our entire country, the Oxbridge buffoons and Bullingdon Club idiots.

There is a time and a place for taking the piss and you don't do it about the next American President if you are lucky enough and have the honour of representing the British people, whether you come from Oxbridge or not.

Really Claig? you heard it like that, verbatim, including the OMG's and the phonecall to the ministry?

Google "daily mail" "rape" and "lie" if you want to see some really nasty victim blaming, Southall.

Well said, Squishy. But Cologne was NOT the same as other rapes was it? Organised, coordinated and coming from racist & cultural hate; the freedom and ease with which women go about their business in Europe was just to much to bear by some of these newcomers.

'Really Claig? you heard it like that, verbatim, including the OMG's and the phonecall to the ministry?'

OhYouBadKitten, that was my best recollection. I may have imagined the Ministry bit.

So, Claig, it's free speech for you, not so much for those that disagree.

I see now how you are able to square your idea of free speech with admiration of Putin.

'So, Claig, it's free speech for you, not so much for those that disagree.'

Free speech for all ordinary people but not for Ambassadors, diplomats and Oxbridge MPs whose job it is to represent our country. They should button their lip and be respectful of the American President because they are representing not just themselves, but millions and millions of British people and we don't agree with the incompetent idiots.

No. Cologne was not the same as other rapes - that's why it rightly got much more attention than the (approximately) 85,000 women that are raped every year in England and Wales. Immigrants should not be allowed to impose sexist values on western countries, but we should also be working to challenge the sexist values that already exist in our country.
I don't think that celebrating men who freely admit to assaulting women , who have also been accused on more than one occasion of rape, and who make jokes about rape helps to challenge misogenistic, sexist values. Or make women safer.

And shouting "Muslims rape!" when confronted with examples of Trump's serious shortcomings is not a constructive way to conduct an argument. Does everything come back to Muslims with you Southall?

They are representing me too, Claig, and I have been disgusted by the way some MPs (and MEPs) have been falling over themselves to crawl up his arse.

Oh don't worry yourself over it.

Things like Cologne weren't reported in the mainstream press until they'd reached such a crescendo on social media that they had to report it.

In your brave new word it would be fake news and noone would hear about it.

Same with the map I linked to above, the mainstream press won't report it so they have to take reports from local papers.

Wouldn't happen in the brave new world!

Or Rotherham. Damned inconvenient news story, lets bury it for 15 years and let another 1000 or so young girls make 'lifestyle choices'.

We can't have fake news can we?

Bit off topic, but what are SPADs, Claig? I've been wondering for ages....

Those MPs, diplomats etc are also representing millions of ordinary people who despise Trump and who want them to stand up and criticise him every time he shows himself to be unfit for office.

Spin, if you're not going to read my posts don't bother commenting. [smil]

It was the sexist, victim blaming values of our own society and authorities that turned a blind eye to Rotherham and allowed those predatory men to abuse girls for so long.

But its ok.....we will soon all be able to stop bickering. The Chinese have come up with a 'how to spot the baddies' software. Its scientific. Its 100% accurate. Phew. Stand down everyone.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3980130/So-s-goodie-baddie-really-tell-wrong-just-face-s-lips-eyes.html

I haven't closely read the recent but this caught my eye:

"First person to mention fascism: fourmummy." - what is this inference? To reaffirm for others who may be reading, I only ever mention fascism to show how much I dislike it. But I don't only dislike fascism. I lump it together with other ideologies that are 'top-down', in other words, which impose rules on people antithetically to 'bottom-up', democratic processes. I am against any system which is top down, be it fascism, oligarchy, theocracy, communism, or anything else that someone may dream up. In case it's unclear, I am pro-democracy only. This means that, given that democracy is the only system where there is even a possibility of bottom-up processes (the implementation of free will), I am against everything else. Clinton, Soros, EU, Cameron, and all the rest of them were hurtling us towards totalitarian dictatorships, which, in case it's not obvious, I am against. I have spent hours explaining this.

In reality, we need someone to act on our behalf and implement our will. These are the elites. The process is open to abuse, as is abundantly clear, but it doesn't have to be, and just because you may never have known a non-crooked elite in your lifetime does not mean that we have to accept the status quo. We need to find one who will represent the people's voice and not one who will impose their crooked own will on us.

"It was the sexist, victim blaming values of our own society and authorities that turned a blind eye to Rotherham and allowed those predatory men to abuse girls for so long."

Of all the evil sinister and downright ridiculous assertions I've ever seen on internet forums that is the worst.