Trump (Part 2)

[claig]

More on the meaning of Trump, the Trumpsters and Trumpism

Spin: you are all doing a great job of improving our image of Trump supporters by the way.

Of course, the elites can't haev a world war without America helping them, and Trump refuses to play ball, he is against war, he doesn't want it, which is why they call him a "racist" and "white supremacist" because they are all against him as is their media which he calls " a room full of liars".

So if there is a collapse, they won't be able to blame a war, Trump refuses to save them. Trump has said "America First" and they are bricking it because America won't bail them out.

"it will be a disaster for millions of people and probably for us too as we are so closely linked to the EU economy and it will probably lead to war "

As a matter of fact I think we'd do pretty well out of it. Sterling as a safe haven, Germany's export dominance shattered and lots of investment opportunities.

Don't forget that we import twice as much from them as they buy from us.

so no examples then!

Who would or could they go to war with?

Italy and France fighting over who can surrender first?

'as you come across as reveling in EU problems sometimes.'

No, I dislike elites, that should be obvious by now. I am for the "people", all European people and American people and Russian people and Syrian people etc etc.I don't like elites and Blairites who try to take our freedom of speech or remove our democracy by handing over our sovereignty to an unelected bunch of bureaucrats who are merely servants of bankers.

I want the people to beat them as has happened in America so that we can all be free to express our thoughts, say what we like, take the piss out of any politician or policy and so that Germaine Greer is no longer banned from universities which is just the beginning of removing all our free speech on lots of different issues.

'Italy and France fighting over who can surrender first?'

Without war, the elites will have to answer for what they did to the people

' Sterling as a safe haven, Germany's export dominance shattered and lots of investment opportunities.'

Good point and we would be with Trump and America, first in line for a deal after Trump repatriates all the US money and factories.

As the UK businessman said to Dan Hodges in the Mail on Sunday

"May better shut them up"

The Tory MPs still slagging Trump off.

"Good point and we would be with Trump and America, first in line for a deal after Trump repatriates all the US money and factories."

Yes, though the UK is no threat to the US, framed in terms of the criticisms he has made of other trade deals.

Similar wage costs, no land border to be abused etc.

If we are bright we could be Europe's gateway to the American market. And the American companies gateway to Europe. Currently Ireland holds that role due to their tax regime though I rather suspect the days of low tax anywhere in the EU are drawing to a close.

Not just for the countries themselves but for the EU itself. Whilst we were talking about £10 billion during the referendum the EU, who should know, were talking of a £35B black hole due to Brexit.

They can either cut spending ( lol ) or find that money from somewhere else.

We haven't exactly helped out with Europe's ageing population as huge numbers of EU youngsters have come here. That means higher tax to pay for pensions and whatnot which they can't even afford at the moment.

www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/11/28/eu-troika-fears-italy-crumbling-banks-eye-40bn-bail-out/

Meanwhile investors have been warned off the entire European sector for some time...

www.theguardian.com/business/2016/sep/28/deutsche-bank-john-cryan-denies-asking-german-government-help

Whether it be the referendum, repatriating dollars or some other systemic shock the entire thing really does appear to be built on eggshells at the moment.

What happens if the entire banking sector blows up? Who knows, I couldn't even speculate, but it would certainly be the end of the Euro.

Oh. Wow. SO... let me just get this straight - have not RTFT. Who are the "elites" again? How are they separated from the people on Trumps Board or whatever he is calling it now? The oil, big pharma, tobacco companies for example? Is it just politicians or rich people or educated people or do they have to be all three?

'Who are the "elites" again? How are they separated from the people on Trumps Board or whatever he is calling it now? '

the elites are the globalists who oppose Trump because he wants to "make America great again" and end teh free trade deals that have led to closed factories and job losses fpor American people.

The people that Trump has on his board are by definition good people, because Trump has chosen them. The "elites", the globalists are by definition not good because they oppose Trump and making America great again and ending teh free trade deals that diminish US sovereignty.

' Is it just politicians or rich people or educated people or do they have to be all three?'

Politicians are not elites, they are puppets and when they lose their seats, they are finished apart from working as a lobbyist or in a pay for play charidee, or they are granted a book deal to tide them over. Rich people aren't elite. Wayne Rooney is rich, but he isn't elite. Educated people support Trump, but they aren't elite.

'Are you looking forward to the EU's collapse, Claig?
Bit mean.'"

Sorry, I misread that at the time. Yes, I do want the EU to collapse, and I think it definitely will in less than 2 years now. But I would like it to be an ordered collapse if possible to limit the fallout.

The reason I want it to collapse is because I believe it is against freedom, free speech and democracy, so I want it to disappear so that every country can regain its sovereignty.

"Is it just politicians or rich people or educated people or do they have to be all three?"

Whoever holds power and benefits from corruption, the status quo or decisions made that benefit them really.

A CEO for instance can buy power, but doesn't have much himself. A politician can grant access to power. Rich people can buy influence and power.

The main nexus of power, the powerbrokers I'd say are the lobbyists who also often act a political organisers and fundraisers.

The elites, as claig uses the term, would be opinion formers and those tasked with ensuring the power structure remains rigid. Press, media, politicians, think tanks, pressure groups, corporations. Basically everyone who was allied against Brexit would be a useful working definition. :)

'Basically everyone who was allied against Brexit would be a useful working definition. '

Yes, "elites" would be one word to describe them, but there are some other choice words too

In other words, the elites are everybody you disagree with.

Meanwhile Trump is looking increasingly insane. As Clinton's popular vote lead increases to 2,340,000 he is tweeting this:

"Pathetic - you have no sufficient evidence that Donald Trump did not suffer from voter fraud, shame! Bad reporter."

Very odd. Is he worried about an electoral college revolt now?

Ever wondered whether you are a Russian propagandist?

Concerned you friend might be a Russian propagandist?

Want to flag up a Russian propagandist ready for the McCarthyist purge?

This hilarious website helps you to quickly distinguish between proper news and fake news, which is paid Russian propaganda.

www.propornot.com/p/home.html

Also includes a list of websites which should be banned. Yes you guessed it, wikileaks is Russian propaganda.

Very useful list, quite a few on there which I didn't know were good news sources.

A good summary of it, from a "should be banned" website here...

www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-11-28/worried-you-are-putins-pawn-mainstream-medias-checklist-avoiding-fake-news

Fake news isn't all from Russia - don't get carried away there.

www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2016/11/23/503146770/npr-finds-the-head-of-a-covert-fake-news-operation-in-the-suburbs

"The people wanted to hear this," he says. "So all it took was to write that story. Everything about it was fictional: the town, the people, the sheriff, the FBI guy. And then ... our social media guys kind of go out and do a little dropping it throughout Trump groups and Trump forums and boy it spread like wildfire."

It's clearly a serious problem YYYkaijaYYY.

Let me guess, you'd prefer it if we had to get our news from sources that are party approved?

If it isn't as reported in the Gruniad then it didn't happen?

If anyone ever wondered how states slip into dictatorship and authoritarianism then you would be a good case study.

"
If anyone ever wondered how states slip into dictatorship and authoritarianism then you would be a good case study."

Projecting much?

how do we know that claig isn't an Oxbridge plant

a lot of her doublethink smacks of whiz kid bigwig tomfoolery

I think claig might be trying to hijack the will of the people

Let me guess, you'd prefer it if we had to get our news from sources that are party approved?

Isn't that what Trump is trying to do?
While selling lies in all directions?

Like most of your preferred so called news sites?
And you're accusing others?
The world really is turning upside down and definitely not in a good way.

You're the stuff that puts and allows dictators in power.

The reason I want it to collapse is because I believe it is against freedom, free speech and democracy,

How?
What does it go against any of the three?

I've said it before here.
Be careful what you wish for. You may get it.

The people that Trump has on his board are by definition good people, because Trump has chosen them.
Another of your typical empty and circular arguments.
It's not proven by any means that
a) Trump has any good intentions
B) Trump has good judgement