Trump vs Clinton - the final 3 days

[claig]

Into the final lap now after over 1 year of entertainment, education and excitement. Donald J Trump is nearly there against all expectations.

Not ignoring you claig re your last point. Putting ds to be bed and will be back

Bananagio you make excellent points, though Europe and Italy particularly are very different kettles of fish.

I could make a case for Il Bunga Bunga and Trump being cut from the same cloth but the most important distinction is their respective sectors. Trump is a builder who would be wise to stay out of direct ownership of media, Bunga on the other hand was a media magnate who used his TV stations to woeful ends.

That's not to say that Trump won't use the media, as he has already skillfully done, wouldn't surprise me in the least if the Americans just elected a reality TV President.

"Yes, but are you saying that they now prefer the mainstream and are not attracted by populism? Why has the Five Star Movement grown?"

Same reason they elect porn stars. Politics is a bit of a joke and don't assume that they really want change.

'But it is nowhere near as clear cut as you seem to think. It's really not a case of the slumbering Italians waking from their stupor and realizing they are being controlled. The Italians have known that for decades. '

I didn't say it was. There is nobody smarter than the Italians. They knew they were being ripped off all along. It is the slumbering masses in the UK and America who have been controlled by political correectness who have woken up. In Italy, political correctness is nowhere near as strong as it is here.

Trump said "we are led by very, very stupid people"

and in the UK and Amrica everybody now knows that. None of them can understand what happened, none of them understand why Trump won, not one of them foresaw it which is why they all insulted him and tried to ban him with childish glee, all the Oxbridge teams are clueless and all they can do is spin more against Trump on the BBC news and Channel 4 news and therefore more and more people will wake up nd realise they are being spun.

There are a few clever ones, like Tory MP Kwasi Kwarteng, Eton and Cambridge and a PhD, who is extremely good and who i predict will one day be Prime Minister because he understands that political correctness is counterproductive and has fuelled the people's rebellion, but there aren't many as clever as him among our Oxbridge metropolitan elite.

In Italy, they are not led by stupid people, even though they may be ripped off by them, and the public has always been awake.

'It's nothing new'

Absolutely, in Italy it is not

'in reality nothing really changes that I think you are all kidding yourself as to what the end result will be. Sorry if that sounds cynical.'

You are cynical because you are looking at the Italian experience and projecting it elsewhere. America is not Italy. Trump is not Berlusconi. The changes will be enormous in America and they will succeed. Trump will Drain the Swamp and America will be First and the whole world better get used to it and stop insulting Trump, all the Oxbridge teams will have to wake up and smell the coffee, and then it will spread to France and Germany, which are also not like Italy and where the changes will be huge and where they will work, and the UK will have to go along too, and then things may even one day change in Italy as all of Europe begins to change and the EU collapses.

The politically correct insanity is over in America and it will end here too one day. In Italy, it isn't that bad, but all of Europe will change and anti globalisation will follow after anti political correctness.

Sarkozy, the Establishment politician who led the attack on Libya along with our own moderniser Cameron, now long gone, is pretending that he is a populist, to fight Le Pen. Sarkozy is fighting on a ticket of "people vs the elites" and anti "politcal correctness" because he knows that is the only way to win elections now in the midst of a global populist rebellion against the elites. That will be the same all over Europe and anyone who can't understand it and who can't adapt is going to lose the popular vote.

Tony Blair doesn't "understand" it, the BBC is clueless, it is a revolution and Trump's victory has shaken elites across the world.

If there's any movement to get rid of political correctness in Italy then I don't know of it. Bananagio?

Family, friends, screw the government basically. A politician telling you what to do and say? Good luck. Might as well try herding cats.

"Sarkozy, the Establishment politician who led the attack on Libya along with our own moderniser Cameron, now long gone,"

There's a nice internet meme about the curse of Assad. Worth looking it up. :)

Bear in mind that France doesn't matter. Similar to the Ukraine it's just a breadbasket. Saying that there's some scary permutations in their upcoming elections.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/11/britain-could-join-usa-canada-and-mexico-in-new-free-trade-area/

Think I called this a few years back...

With the right tarifs, which I don't think are out of reasonable bounds, this could smash our economy through the roof.

'Not ignoring you claig re your last point'

No problems, you have raised excellent points that get to the heart of it and Italy has suffered under corrupt politicians and crooked elites and Masonic P2 lodges and all the rest for ages and ages, but it is not as bad in most of the rest of the West. However, political correctness is worse and that is about to end which is why Beppe Grillo is right that it is

"It's the apocalypse of the media, TV, the big newspapers, the intellectuals, the journalists"

not just in Italy, but all across Europe and America and of course that will mean it is the end of the Oxbridge teams too because they are clueless to understand what has happened or to even foresee the rise of Donald J Trump.

They are all on radio saying he will have problems, he won't be able to do what he said, but they are clueless. As he always said about them

"politicians, all talk no action", "puppets", "we are led by very, very stupid people"

but now all those days are over. They mocked him, they insulted him, they tried to ban him and now they fear him. it's Donald J Trump.

"They are all on radio saying he will have problems, he won't be able to do what he said, but they are clueless. "

No. They, probably, understand the separation of powers in the US.

Foreign trade is the competence of Congress, not a new thing it's in the constitution.

Immigration is the competence of Congress. Not a new thing, since the 1920s or certainly the 1930s.

Wait and see, Trump won't be prevented from what he wants to do. He said "this is not a game", he said "I didn't need to do this folks, I had a great life, I could have played golf". He didn't go through all of this and be insulted by puppets worldwide for nothing. He intends to take America back.

Charidees will be investigated, there will be "lockings up" and a lot of the political class will be found to have been involved and Trump will get his way.

It's funny though isn't it? He currently looks like he wishes he was playing golf.

why has the five star movement grown
For so many reasons. The reality of the failure of Berlusconi to do anything to improve the lot of the average person. The same for the other governments in between. The fact that my father in law who had an average job takes more home every month in his pension than my DP does in his wage in his graduate level, decent job. The fact that so many adults can't envisage leaving home, not because of the stereotype of being overtly attached to their mamma but because the average call centre job pays them 500 euros a month. Because Italy has been shamefullly abandoned by most of the European continent regarding the refugee crisis as everyone else prefers to look the other way and whistle innocently rather than accept the fact that Italian borders are the borders to THEIR bloody continent as well regardless of EU or no EU. A crisis which the UK is seen as much the same as the likes of Hungary in their shameful approach. Why else do 5 appeal? Because they say they are anti corruption when we have once again being shown with the mafia capitale scandal that those in charge are stuffing their pockets at the expense of those who can't make it to the end of the month. Because people including a friend of dp and 2 members of his family died in an earthquake in Amatrice in August and we are hearing that corruption and bureaucracy may have been to blame for the lack of anti seismic building reinforcements being carried out. And despite the fact I am pro-Eu (despite everything rather than being in agreement with everything) another major reason is the hell of austerity. There is no end to the list claig*. And I am angry. We are angry. But then Grillo's party gets control of Rome and then corruption rumours start to leak once again. And apart from saying No and Vaffanculo to everything I am at a loss to know what they stand for and what they would do. They are keyboard warriers with no coherent plan and a gobshite as a figurehead. And Renzi is using the turmoil in Europe to argue with some force currently against ongoing austerity. After seeing the failure of populism over the last 20 years here I personally would rather stay with Renzi. Not through any strong feelings for him. But because I am sick of populists using people's real pain and real life shit, promising them the earth, giving them hope and then giving them more of the same and in many cases worse. Because behind the shouting and slogans they have no plan, no clue and don't give the slightest toss for those they claim to fight for.

The charidees of the democrats or those of the same republicans he needs to push his agenda?

"He didn't go through all of this and be insulted by puppets worldwide for nothing"

Then he didn't understand the role of President. He does though.

There's a swamp shaped circle that he has to square. All against special interests with massive funding.

't's funny though isn't it? He currently looks like he wishes he was playing golf.'

That is to fool the elites, to wrongside them.

'The charidees of the democrats or those of the same republicans he needs to push his agenda?'

Anyone who opposes him. There will probably be replacements after "locking ups".

'All against special interests with massive funding.'

The special interest all opposed him and funded Jeb Bush and all the rest of the RINOs and then backed Hillary. Tey now fall in line or he takes them on. As Roger Stone says Trump "can't be bullied, he can't be bought", he is not a "puppet" like the rest of them

Here is one of his tweets months ago

"Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump

Dopey Prince @Alwaleed_Talal wants to control our U.S. politicians with daddy’s money. Can’t do it when I get elected. #Trump2016
3:53 AM - 12 Dec 2015"

Yes, he does look like a man who doesn't know what he's got himself into. You have to wonder whether his health will stand it.

Snidey comments in the media on Trumps White House visit. To me he just looked like he was going through the motions but really did not want to engage with Obama.

I don't disagree with a word you've said Bananagio. Things are going to get far worse too.

Doubt the banks will get through the winter, global trade stagnant at best and Trump will be repatriating dollars to inflate the US economy.

Oh and pay for your own defence or lose the nuclear shield too.

It was only just dawning on the EU leaders how fucked they were, and then Trump got elected.

'And apart from saying No and Vaffanculo to everything I am at a loss to know what they stand for and what they would do. They are keyboard warriers with no coherent plan and a gobshite as a figurehead. And Renzi is using the turmoil in Europe to argue with some force currently against ongoing austerity. After seeing the failure of populism over the last 20 years here I personally would rather stay with Renzi.'

Renzi has to pretend, just like Sarkozy, because the tide has turned. Beppe Grill is a comedian, he is only the first step in the turmoil. In the long run Renzi won't survive it because Merkel won't even survive it, the EU will fall and Renzi will fall because he was part of it. Something new will replace him, not necessarily Grillo.

Trump has set off an earthquake and it will shake all of Europe.

Common sense as opposed to political correctness has returned.

'Because behind the shouting and slogans they have no plan, no clue and don't give the slightest toss for those they claim to fight for.'

But that won't be the case in America and therefore not in Europe too.

spinflight berluska was more than just media. Re building look at Milano 2 (as well as the organized crime links in getting it constructed), mondatore and never underestimate the fact he owned AC Milan for so long or estimate what owning your own serie A football club did to help his PR in a country that revolves round the game.
Him and Trump are from the same mould.

"There will probably be replacements after "locking ups"."

Replacements needs an election. Lockings up need due process. Years not months.

'Snidey comments in the media on Trumps White House visit. To me he just looked like he was going through the motions but really did not want to engage with Obama.'

Absolutely BoredofBrexit, there are people who say he doesn't like Obama and the feeling is mutual. At the moment, Trump is playing the game.

Trump has set off an earthquake and it will shake all of Europe.
Not the most tactful use of words at the moment for Itay claig. We could do with the earth staying still for a while...

'Replacements needs an election. Lockings up need due process. Years not months.'

Yes, but everyone will get the message and fall in line before the years are up. And with Giuliani and Chris Christie, things will start getting tough. If Trump unleashes peoplle of teh calibre of Judge Nap (Andrew Napolitano) and Judge Jeanine Pirro then they will fall in line as fast as they can.

'We could do with the earth staying still for a while...'

True. I hope there won't be any more.