Trump vs Clinton - the final 3 days

[claig]

Into the final lap now after over 1 year of entertainment, education and excitement. Donald J Trump is nearly there against all expectations.

'Shouldn't Trump stick twould fingers to the establishment and concede victory to the person who got the most votes from the people?'

No because there was a post about "internet sleuths" doubting the accuracy of the count and anyway the system does not work like that, there is an electoral college under which Obama and Bush and Nixon and Kennedy etc were all elected.

'Shouldn't Trump stick twould fingers to the establishment and concede victory'

He will certainly do the first, but no one is asking for the second.

'.I just go by who I like or dislike'

Me too. the entire Brexit rebellion really started in about 2014 when about 20% of the Tory voters had finally had enough of Cameron and the modernisers' political correctness about lots of issues. Once they switched to UKIP, it was the beginning of the end, UKIP grew and is it grew Labour voters joined it and it eventually led to Brexit.

A pleasure hearing from you Bananagio

"But I don't believe it will be the end of the EU"

I agree.

"The whole EU has been exposed as being built on quicksand and the stresses of immigration caused by the war in Syria where the Saudis and Turks and Qataris backed the Jihadis against Assad"

Lol, and who else do you think might have benefitted from such. Some small confederation of states largely dependant upon Russian gas maybe?

There's different stresses though. Demographic stresses with aging populations whose retirements you can't afford and social stresses. Quite the opposite of built on quicksand this is, from an elite's perspective, one of it's main strengths. Particularly Germany's.

Course with an ever expanding export market this makes some sense. A contracting export market. Geez. Fasten your seatbelts Europe.

"I don't think Trump will care much about the EU"

Neither do I, and that before Farage became involved with him. If he really does hire Farage then it's about as blatant an insult as you cold get.

'Lol, and who else do you think might have benefitted from such. Some small confederation of states largely dependant upon Russian gas maybe?'

I don't understand that. What do you mean?

'Quite the opposite of built on quicksand this is, from an elite's perspective, one of it's main strengths. Particularly Germany's.'

Not sure I understand you, are you saying that the declining demographics are a strength?

Is UKIP a powerful force then? I thought they only had one paltry, miserable little seat!

I always despised Cameron and Gideon.

'Is UKIP a powerful force then? I thought they only had one paltry, miserable little seat!'

No, not powerful but they were really the catalyst of the anti-establishment that led to Brexit and they have similarities with Trumpism which is why Trump now calls himself "Mr Brexit" and Farage is the British politician that now knows Trump and his team best, and is admired more by them, than any other member of our entire political class who had mainly all insulted Trump.

So they had an influence that went beyond their small political representation.

Apparently Farage is on a flight to the States to try and meet Trump this weekend. Farage is now the UK's top man as near enough the only UK contact with Donald J Trump, earth shaker in chief and catalyst for the biggest event since the fall of the Berlin Wall according to the editor of the Economist.

Farage now finds himself in the thick of it.

Do Boris and Nigel get on?

Farage probably can't believe his luck!!!

Claig...thanks a million for taking the time to answer my questions - I appreciate that very much!!! Rousette will tell me off but you really are something!!!

I don't know, that is a good question. I think they could probably get on well but I don't know if they do.

It's an interesting thought.

'Farage probably can't believe his luck!!!'

Absolutely. he is despised by the British Establishment and now he is up there at the top of the world with Donald J Trump.

There are reports that he is going around Washington and New York, like Jimmy Cagney, shouting "Look at me, ma, I'm at the top of the world, ma"

'you really are something!!!'

Thanks, I usually get that as an insult

Haha no - it is definitely meant as a compliment!!

Thanks

You are welcome.

More fool the British establishment, eh Claig? Good old Nige. When many were outraged by his EU 'your not laughing now' speech, I applauded him.

'More fool the British establishment, eh Claig? Good old Nige'

Absolutely, BoreOfBrexit. Peter Oborne recognised his significance as one of the three postwar politcians that had the greatest impact on this country - Clement Atlee, Margaret Thatcher and Nigel Farage.

Trump likes Farage, and he was treated as a hero at the Republican Convention by ordinary Republican voters and by non-Establishment Republican politicians, so it is silly not to use that.

Germany especially is largely dependant upon Russian gas. If you think it's on the ME states and Russia that have power political issues in Syria then you aren't looking very far.

Also most of Europe has ageing populations with no savings for retirement and no state money put aside for them. Mass immigration is a way of countering this.

"PETER OBORNE: Lefties loathe him but the truth is Nigel Farage changed history

By my estimate, only three politicians have made a genuine, enduring difference to Britain in the past 50 years

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3715544/PETER-OBORNE-Lefties-loathe-truth-man-changed-history.html

Sorry, Farage is the fourth and Oborne says that the other three are Roy Jenkins, Edward Heath and Margaret Thatcher in teh past 50 years.

'Mass immigration is a way of countering this.'

Yes, that is what the elites want but it has led to Brexit and the rise of populist parties and teh stresses on Italy etc that will likely break teh European Union as Hungary and Poland and eventually France when teh socialists are defeated refuse to go along with Brussels.

'Germany especially is largely dependant upon Russian gas. If you think it's on the ME states and Russia that have power political issues in Syria then you aren't looking very far.'

Yes, but neither Qatari nor Iranian gas help Russia. It does help Germany because it lessens their dependence (and the EU's dependence) on Russian gas, but the Syrian War has contributed to the refugee crisis that has created the exisential crisis for the EU.

anyway the system does not work like that, there is an electoral college under which Obama and Bush and Nixon and Kennedy etc were all elected.

that was the point... :)

The system, the establishment, breaking up with them...

Of those all (but the W Bush) were elected with a popular majority as well as electoral college.

It is a rigged system, I guess, and one that favours Republicans. Go figure.

'It is a rigged system, I guess, and one that favours Republicans.'

Democrats usually start with a huge advantage. Any other Republican would have lost to Hillary. Trump was able to appeal to blue collar workers in the rust belt, Michigan etc because he is not a traditional Republican.

I can't remeber what the reason was for the electoral college but I think there is a good reason for it.

Not really, due to the preponderance of Democrats in New York and California they actually start with about a 3% disadvantage.

Think about it, you can win a state with 100% of the vote but you don't get any more electoral college votes out of it.

"Yes, but neither Qatari nor Iranian gas help Russia."

Which is why they are involved in stopping it. Qatar want a pipeline through the region, but Assad is in the way. Iran want a pipeline through the region too. Meanwhile Russia really doesn't want a pipeline at all.

There's other factors but it goes to explain the circular firing squad of factions involved in Syria.

Great thread today. Cant remember who posted what, but thank you for the NY Times link....read that too (though I had to splutter at the 'view from brexitland' written by Oxbridge Helen 'Ive dropped my double barrell' Lewis .......when will they learn!) Facinating insight from Italy, but agree if ever anyone needs to understand the impact of the great EU experiment, read Bananagios posts. I also think you have to look at Berlusconis position in the context of the EU stage. Just going back to spins power post, Berlusconi never had what Trump now has. Sovereignty.

Lweji, whilst it appears, possibly comforting to some, the whole 'Clinton won the popular vote' thing, its a known phenomenon that people vote differently in a referedum style 1 man 1 vote (proportional representative) system to a majority style system as we do, or as in the US. Voters do factor in their 'wasted' vote, hence low turn outs in strong areas. Whilst Im not surprised this has been the narrative of the last 48hours, they need to be cautious they dont indeed get enough momentum behind it to actually change the US system to a PR one. The first impact of that is, turn out goes through the roof, and the Democrats will never be in power again. Yet more sweet irony to look forward to though.

(Im still enjoying Podestas leaked, DNC strategy meeting mail..... Hillary C. 'elevate The Donald as a 'pied piper' candidate. sic Oh, and just how screwed was the whole New Balance burning shoes thing? Americans, burning American made shoes, in protest at the threat of jobs coming back to America? Pinch me now) Anyway, apols, thats old news......back on thread. Really interesting reading today guys...thank you.