Trump vs Clinton - the final 3 days

[claig]

Into the final lap now after over 1 year of entertainment, education and excitement. Donald J Trump is nearly there against all expectations.

BBC Newsnight predictably put Ed Miliband on Newsnight last night and he called Donald Trump, President-Elect of the United States of America, "the groper".

What do they put in the water at Oxford? What planet is Miliband on? Did the marble Edstone mean he lost his marbles?

What was that about the popular vote?

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-elections/donald-trump-hillary-clinton-popular-vote-results-election-us-2016-winner-a7412046.html%3Famp?client=safari

Groper as good a description as any. And there are plenty to choose from.

Kaija- don't be silly, they aren't proper votes! "internet sleuths" have said so.

Naturally. How do we know any of it happened? And it was rigged anyway. Like the last one:

He will be impeached soon anyway

Claig, I dunno, I've been thinking that we'd be better with Gideon than Hammond - he was a bastard but a cunning one. Hammond is too....goofy.

I'm assuming this is Claig testing out her material before she embarks on an ultra-right wing stand up show, similar to Mark Thomas or Ben Elton but at the other end of the spectrum.

herethereandeverywhere, "stand up show"

You've got to have a laugh

'I've been thinking that we'd be better with Gideon than Hammond'

I don't know, BoredofBrexit. What is Hammond doing? I think with Trump in power, we will get Brexit.

herethereandeverywhere, "stand up show"

You've got to have a laugh

'I've been thinking that we'd be better with Gideon than Hammond'

I don't know, BoredofBrexit. What is Hammond doing? I think with Trump in power, we will get Brexit.

Sorry browser crashed

Looks like members of The Donald subbreddit are preparing to do battle in the French election. They are already giving ideas on getting Marine Le Pen to win

Trump knows full well what's been going on with Hilary Clinton and rightfully wants to blow it all apart, do we reckon Obama will pardon her before he leaves office thus ensuring she cannot be prosecuted? That will be very telling. As I see it her options are limited, she can be given a pardon (which in itself would be seen as an admission of guilt) or she has Trump gunning to expose her, either way she is stuffed. That could also explain why she didn't do the usual thanking her supporters speech straight after the result was officially called (as is usual practice).

Time-yes, I think Obama is busy doing his own version of Cameron's leaving list. But I don't know if saving Hillary will be in it, I don't think there was much love lost there.

'Trump knows full well what's been going on with Hilary Clinton '

Absolutely.

'do we reckon Obama will pardon her before he leaves office'

Just listened to Roger Stone on it. He says Trump is surrounded by Establishment types advising him not to pursue anything against Hillary, but Stone thinks the law should be followed and it should go ahead and Giuliani said the same last night, but Stone said Obama may pardon her.

'That could also explain why she didn't do the usual thanking her supporters speech straight after the result was officially called (as is usual practice).'

Some conspiracy theorists said she may have been contacting Obama to check about possible pardons.

But there have been all sorts of rumours in the past that Obama dislikes the Clintons, so who knows maybe he won't give a pardon.

'But I don't know if saving Hillary will be in it, I don't think there was much love lost there.'

Yep, that may be the case

"They are already giving ideas on getting Marine Le Pen to win"

That isn't a good idea.

Europe is in trouble. World trade is slowing down and might start contracting soon.which means the German gravy train that the europeons have hitched themselves to is about to grind to a halt. If they want to remain under America's blanket they'll have to start paying their 2% and frankly a lot of them are already bankrupt.

Claig mentioned Italy. Very complicated subject but I doubt they'll go for it.

Back to the US I put a post on that execrable Guest post but the entire thing has gone. Trump promised to drain the swamp and I think he's halfway there already.

Remember when I was talking about power I mentioned that the lobbyists are also the fundraisers? Well Trump just demonstrated that you can fight and win the White House on what would be considered less than a shoe string. He has a reputation for being tighter than scrooge and demonstrated it admirably. Didn't use any pollers, skeleton staff, just him and a flag to rockstar audiences.

Think about it.. The cravenness of the politicians is mathematically linked to the amount of cash they have to raise to get elected or re-elected. Jeb Bush, who was supposed to run, spent almost $100 million for a 4th place finish in the primaries. If Trump spent anything then I'm not aware of it. Quite the opposite, he complained about making the networks rich as people tuned in the see the latest round of Trump bashing.

Interestingly the states where Hillary spent the most money were the states she did most poorly in. She thought running ad campaigns which attacked Trump would be effective, when all they did was boost his ratings.

He got himself elected with her money, which I personally find to be rather amusing.

Trump spent at least $66 million in total and says it may have ended up being $100 million, but Trump does tend to be a very little bit fast and loose with the facts, so who knows the exact amount

On Italy, Beppe Grillo is calling what is happening with Brexit and Trump "the apocalypse of the mainstream" and when I watched the platitudes of the politicians on Question Time last night, as howabout mentioned earlier, and as the BBC and Channel 4 continue their anti Trump message, I think Beppe may be right

"To the south, in Italy, where a constitutional reform referendum on December 4 will provide the next major test of the durability of Europe’s political mainstream, the leader of the populist Five Star Movement, Beppe Grillo, hailed the Trump victory as the “apocalypse” of the mainstream.

“It's crazy. This is the explosion of an era. It's the apocalypse of the media, TV, the big newspapers, the intellectuals, the journalists,” the bearded former comedian wrote on his blog.

“This is a wide-ranging F* off.” The apparent election-night bonfire of the US political establishment was also welcomed from east to west, with Nigel Farage, the former Ukip leader who is lionised in Europe for engineering Brexit, warning ecstatically of a coming “sea-change”.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/09/trump-victory-heralded-apocalypse-of-the-mainstream-by-europes-r/

Grillo could do with making his first serious attempt at governing with his mayor Raggi where I live in Rome less of a total flop before getting too cocky. Plus he is late to the party - there is little coming out from Trumps mouth that we didn't hear times a million from the original orange populist Berlusconi 2 decades ago with his outsider non establishment pitch. We had the same successful business man promising a taste of his success to the country while sweeping away corruption and the old guard, the same saying it as it is etc and what did we get! The same misogyny, the same stagnantation of the country, the same connections with organized crime, the same elites benefitting including berluska with his changes in the law to save his orange ass from jail from the multitude of prosecutions that were brought against him (some successfully), same actions in his self interest to maximize his business and fortune. So don't celebrate too early re Trump! And be careful what you wish for.

And Berlusconi had the same way of appealing across the board initially. He was the man so many Italians secretly or not so secretly wanted be. I have friends and family both left and right who voted for him at least once. In the hope of change and something different. None of them see him as anything other than an embarrassment and a huge disillusion now I can assure you.

'there is little coming out from Trumps mouth that we didn't hear times a million from the original orange populist Berlusconi 2 decades ago with his outsider non establishment pitch'

Very good point. But are you saying that the populist wave that is sweeping the world and the tsunami that is about to hit Europe and probably end the EU totally, will miss Italy because Italians prefer the status quo?

American funding is complicated. Bear in mind that it isn't just a President being elected, you also have a proportion of the Senate and house, though the former can often see $100 million being spent.

You also have political action committees and super pacs ( which have unlimited budgets). Supposedly separate ( I think by law) they tend to be single issue focussed but are actually backing a candidate. The NRA for instance might spend its money attacking a candidate in favour of gun control, which is tacitly supporting the opposing candidate. They did this in the election though one of the Democrats basically dumped their money in the ocean by stripping and assembling his AR-15 blind folded.

Of course this gets more complicated when you consider the wider balance of power considerations. If the republicans lost control of the Senate then that would impact upon the NRA's wishes. And those of the various abortion lobbies. And those of the paperclip manufacturers etc etc ad nauseum.

The media called it wrong and far more vociferously than the presidential election however they forgot that all the money from the various GOP and special interests which wasn't backing Trump ( nigh on all of it) was going to be poured into these sections of the election.

So, how much was spent is complicated because a lot of the money spent or raised indirectly and directly for the GOP didn't actually go anywhere near Trump or was even used to attack him in cases.

The Democrats pretty much sang from the same hymn sheet and spent an awful lot of money doing so. Probably more in real terms than any election in history. To say their warchest was overflowing is no understatement but they still looked enviously at the money Bernie Sanders was raising and decided to steal it.

I actually thought Trump would take Nevada because of it, imagine being a Sanders supporter who has opened your checkbook for him, then finding out that through wikileaks that the caucus was rigged and Hillary had stolen the money you donated to one of his PACs...

It's likely that Trump actually lost more money in business terms over a period of days after his bad hombre speech than he spent directly.... He still had donations and whatnot, I'm guessing when the numbers are crunched it'll turn out closer to $300 million than the figure we currently have, though bear in mind that might still be a 1/10th of Hillary's budget.

If money alone, and previously many pundits have literally looked at nothing else, can't buy you an election then the people who solicit for politician's cash probably just lost 80% of their power overnight.

'None of them see him as anything other than an embarrassment and a huge disillusion now I can assure you.'

Yes, but are you saying that they now prefer the mainstream and are not attracted by populism? Why has the Five Star Movement grown?

Nope not at all. I think there is a good chance that it could happen here. But it is nowhere near as clear cut as you seem to think. It's really not a case of the slumbering Italians waking from their stupor and realizing they are being controlled. The Italians have known that for decades. There is zero trust in the state here. And never has been. It's nothing new. Which is why finding ways round things from taxes to laws is done with such skill here. Corruption in public office is an epidemic. But it is an epidemic that has been with us forever seemingly. Renzi could fall. 5* could get in. But I have seen so many governments fall and so many changes while in reality nothing really changes that I think you are all kidding yourself as to what the end result will be. Sorry if that sounds cynical.