Trump vs Clinton. Biggest debate in world history 2am tomorrow. Will you be there?

[claig]

The entire world's movers and shakers, swindlers and fakers, public money piss-takers will be watching in trepidation at what Trump will do to them. The entire world's great and the good, high and the mighty, shifty and flighty will be supporting Hillary. Will you be with the people supporting Trump?

Have you got the ice cream, the chocolate, the biscuits and the matchsticks to keep the eyelids open ready?

As a warm-up, here is Sky News's 30 minute documentary shown last night

"Trump. Could it really happen?"

These allegations do have to be viewed in light of the fact that Trump thinks Jeffrey Epstein is a "terrific guy" and that "He's a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side. No doubt about it — Jeffrey enjoys his social life."

Yes, Jeffrey Epstein the registered sex offender who has been named in a number of law suits as abusing under age girls, has served time in prison, has paid off at least three of his accusers but still faces several claims of sex abuse.

So Trump thinks a man who abuses young women is terrific. I ask again, how can anyone think he is remotely fit even to stand as president?

Do people honestly think this is a surprise? For a man who's built a public face out of being obnoxious this is 'no shit Sherlock'.

The way it will affect him is by his campaign having to 'quieten down'. His campaign depends on rabble rousing and cheerleading.

Anyone who tries to pretend that Trump has the moral high ground over Bill Clinton is utterly deluded. It is well documented that Trump has had multiple affairs whilst married to his multiple wives.

I think that this latest revelation is just the start of things to come. I notice that Trumps ex wives have been conspicuously silent during the campaign. I wonder if they're being kept as a secret weapon to use in the final days... I'm pretty sure they could say a few things to bring down this vile misogynist.

Hilary isn't perfect, we all acknowledge that. Yes I believe she did intimidate Bill's various women. But I don't believe that is in any way equal to the way Trump has treated women and continues to do so.

Claig, how does anything Bill Clinton might have done make Trump anything less than a disgusting, abusive sleaze?

Oh and treatment of woman like this is exactly what the 'Establishment' has been doing for centuries

My view of the 'estblishment' is one that seen is seen by a woman, one that believes in equal rights for all no matter what skin colour, sexuality, sex, belieif system, class or creed. Mine isn't informed by my own mysogongy, authoritarianism, racisist twisted view of the world

'how does anything Bill Clinton might have done make Trump anything less than a disgusting, abusive sleaze?'

Because what he is alleged to have done makes what Trump did and said pale in comparison and would point to a system that knew and covered up what had happened. That is why Trump's advisers are advising him not to "go there". Whether he will take their advice, we will have to wait and see over the remaining 30 days.

I wonder if this is going to hurt Trump amongst his male supporters? I don't think they will take kindly to his view that their wives and daughters are fair game and that it is clever to boast about grabbing their genitals.

it is nothing in comparison to what Bill Clinton is alleged to have done

Hillary Clinton is therefore to blame for the alleged actions of her husband. And I suppose there's a rational to blame the sexual abuse on the women. By the time we're done the Trump cheer-leaders will be painting him as the victim (and no doubt this is already happening).

It's the post-fact world guys. We need to get used to it.

I don't think there is any evidence for it [the rape allegations]

I think if there was, it might have been snapped up early on by the HC campaign to keep in their arsenal, ready to fire at just the right moment. And that moment is about to arrive.

That's my wishful thinking - but I've suspected all along that there's a whole heap of shit on DT that the HC campaign have and they are just biding their time to release it at just the right moment. It's how campagins work - Ive no doubt DTs campaign plan to do the same with HC.

The question is who's shit is worse and more damaging to their campaign?

I have long though that Claig is an escapee from Pistonheads

People I think we have our evidence

The twisting by Trump and any of his supporters including Claig to make it about Hillary isn''t post facts. It's pure Misogyny.

'how does anything Bill Clinton might have done make Trump anything less than a disgusting, abusive sleaze?'

Because what he is alleged to have done makes what Trump did and said pale in comparison

It might. But does that make it OK? Really?

So it's ok for men to grope and forcibly kiss women, because other men rape them and that's much worse?

Great.

Claig, you aren't answering the question. Put to one side what Bill Clinton may or may not have done. You can't say when someone does something awful that somehow it is less awful because of what someone else has done. Do you believe that, for instance, Fred West was any less awful because Ian Brady was a vile abusive murderer?

So, look at what Trump has undoubtedly said. Were his words the words of a despicable sleaze or not? Is it all right with you for a man to talk that way about women? Is it all right with you for a man to talk that way when he has a pregnant wife? Do you believe that a man who thinks that is all right is fit to be president?

'I've suspected all along that there's a whole heap of shit on DT that the HC campaign have and they are just biding their time to release it at just the right moment. It's how campagins work - Ive no doubt DTs campaign plan to do the same with HC.

The question is who's shit is worse and more damaging to their campaign?'

Absolutely. The Clinton campaign has got sexist lanaguage and tax allegations over Trump, but Trump has far, far worse over the other side but so far he has not used it. Whether he has the nerve to reveal it, we don't know yet. So far he hasn't. Time is running out for him, so I think he will have no option but to reveal it soon.

Imagine the scene. A woman is talking to Donald Trump. He suddenly lunges at her and forces himself on her, kissing her (because he just can't help it), and grabs her genitals.

She says - Oh it's ok, because Bill Clinton had affairs years ago.

That's the logic that you're trying to argue Claig

'But does that make it OK? Really?'

No, I have said that I don't condone what Trump said or has said about lots of other things. He says lots of things that he should not have said.

I think this thread might be in for a massive collapse of stout party.

The big question is, will it happen before the thread reaches 1000 posts?

Actually it's the Washington Post that has the shit....on Trump...apparently loads of it

Who gives a shit about some speeches Clinton made to a closed audience in Wall Street - these leaks are aimed to turn away Sanders supporters no one else. But with Trump being you know...Trump..it won't make a dent

The Clinton campaign has got sexist lanaguage and tax allegations over Trump, but Trump has far, far worse over the other side but so far he has not used it. Whether he has the nerve to reveal it, we don't know yet. So far he hasn't. Time is running out for him, so I think he will have no option but to reveal it soon

I agree that they probably both have far worse against each other.

Do you really think that Trump isn't releasing bad press over HC because he 'doesnt' have the nerve?'. Or do you think that he is refraining from criticizing her in her behaviour over her husband's affairs because a) It was her husband, not her, and she's running for president not him b) It doesn't look good to attack a woman for her husband's behaviour and c) Trump has done far, far worse than we've already heard, and people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

I'm pretty sure it's all of the above, but mostly c). Very much so.

'Actually it's the Washington Post that has the shit....on Trump...apparently loads of it'

Absolutely. Amazon's Bezos owns it and Trump says it is one of the worst papers.

Ah I will bow out and leave the pistonhead to it

It's like watching one of those preachers in the street. Best just to walk on by and leave them in the cold

One last word. Misogyny

He says lots of things that he should not have said

Well, let's hope he keeps his mouth shut and thinks before speaking if he becomes the most powerful person in the world?

'Do you really think that Trump isn't releasing bad press over HC because he 'doesnt' have the nerve?'

That is what I think. I think his advisers have told him not to because they understand how the media works and what they will all do to Trump if he tries it and they are worried that it will sink Trump.

I don't think Trump has done worse or he would not have risked putting himself in the position of running for President because he knows that he is challenging the entire Establishment and they have the resources to find out anything he has done.

The Clinton campaign has got sexist lanaguage

No, no, no Claig you misunderstand.

"I grabbed her by the pussy" isn't sexist language. It's a confession of sexual assault. They have Trump confessing to sexual assault on tape.

If you walk into a police station and tell them that you 'grabbed a woman by the pussy' they wouldn't give you a slapped wrist for being a bit sexist. They would arrest you.

If I was socialising with a man and he shoved his hand up my skirt and grabbed my genitals - I wouldn't giggle and tell him he's a sexist. I would report him for sexual assault.

Trump has been exposed as confessing openly, actually bragging, about committing sexual assault.

Let's not dress this up in any other way.

Remind me when it was announced that Bill Clinton was a Presidential
candidate?

'Do you really think that Trump isn't releasing bad press over HC because he 'doesnt' have the nerve?'

That is what I think. I think his advisers have told him not to because they understand how the media works and what they will all do to Trump if he tries it and they are worried that it will sink Trump.

Yes, I agree with you here. But not because he 'doesn't have the nerve', but because he knows full well that if he pushes it too much, they'll push back.

Of course, if he knew he was innocent and had no more dirt to reveal, he wouldn't have anything to be afraid of would he?

Like I said - people in glass houses shouldn't (and apparently don't have the nerve to) throw stones.