Trump vs Clinton. Biggest debate in world history 2am tomorrow. Will you be there?

[claig]

The entire world's movers and shakers, swindlers and fakers, public money piss-takers will be watching in trepidation at what Trump will do to them. The entire world's great and the good, high and the mighty, shifty and flighty will be supporting Hillary. Will you be with the people supporting Trump?

Have you got the ice cream, the chocolate, the biscuits and the matchsticks to keep the eyelids open ready?

As a warm-up, here is Sky News's 30 minute documentary shown last night

"Trump. Could it really happen?"

Agree zuleika

His apology makes me sick. Firstly, it's obvious it's not done willingly, secondly he just uses it as an excuse to attack HC. And the vile comments were made just 8 months after he married his third wife, who was pregnant at the time. That alone shows what he thinks about women, he can't even respect the woman he's just married. The NY Times headlines "Donald Trump, Groper in Chief".

Even his party are deserting him, it's about time claig did!

Trump emailed a reporter a few days ago saying that he doesn't want to bring Bill Clinton's past up in the 2nd debate, but I think he will have to do it now.

She's been the ultimate "good wife".

People have to evaluate their track record and decide. I think Trump's is worse, and he hasn't been under the same scrutiny as Hillary, although he's been under and courting the public eye. I don't think he cares about anyone but himself.
And I don't think he has the temperament to be President at all.
Yes, I'd rather see another Democrat in the Presidency. Another woman, preferably. One that it's not part of a dinasty.
But not Trump. And not what he represents.

Rick Tyler, not a Trump fan and Ted Cruz's former campaign manager, is right that Trump is not a good performer on policy etc because he doesn't know enough about it. He will have to set the agenda rather than playing to Hillary's tune, so I think Trump now has no option but to reveal some real shockers in order to regain the initiative.

"Trump needs 'game-changing' win in next debate to salvage election chances
...
Rick Tyler, a political analyst and former spokesperson for Republican primary candidate Ted Cruz, said of Trump: “From what I can tell from the polls, his prospects in the election are bleak. He’s going to need a game-changing win in the debate if he’s going to stand any chance in November.”

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But the town hall format will not necessarily suit him. “He’s just not an impressive performer when it comes to answering people’s questions,” Tyler added. “He’s not grounded in policy, foreign or domestic. He doesn’t give a lot of thought to issues."

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/oct/07/trump-clinton-second-presidential-debate

Claig

It appears to me that your anti-Establishment politics is more of an opposition to "political correctness" as it is genuine opposition to the idea of a political elite. Trump may not be a member of the Elite in the sense that he is part of the political machine, but he is clearly a member of the Elite in the sense that he is part of the economic machine that underpins the political one in the US.

The anti-eliteists stances of Trump, Corbyn and Leave are all the same - predjudiced, mysoginistic, authoritarian men leading campaigns that pretend to be against the opression of the masses, but who, if successful, will merely remodel the Elite in their own image. These people deliberately manipulate the lie that they are "telling it how it is". They are not, they are living in a fantasy world.

While some of the criticisms made by Trump are genuine, there is a dangerous mix of irrational hatred in there too. The "jokes" he makes may be diamissed by some as jokes, but actually the are (to use MN terminology) Trump "telling us who he is". The US must listen to what he is telling us and dump him.

Absolutely there is a problem with neoliberalism, but Trump is not the answer as he is the product of it, not the solution to it.

The problem for Trump is that Bill's past is his past, not hers. And he's letting himself open to have his sex life under more scrutiny.
He did open the issue, while claiming he didn't want to open it. He accused Hillary of cheating.
Not sure he can attack more than what he already has.

'I think Trump's is worse, and he hasn't been under the same scrutiny as Hillary,'

Trump's behaviour is nothing compared to what Bill Clinton did and the allegation from Trump is that Hillary knew all about it. Also the scandals that Hillary has been involved with dwarf anything that Trump has done. The problem is that Trump has not been prepared to go there yet as his advisers warn him not to.

'The problem for Trump is that Bill's past is his past, not hers'

No, the allegation is that she knew. There are women saying they are prepared to reveal the truth of what happened.

'He accused Hillary of cheating.'

Yes, that is an accusation that probably won't be effective. Lots of people know what he is referring to but as far as I know, there is no proof.

'Not sure he can attack more than what he already has.'

There is much, much more that Trump can say if he decides to "go there".

What No new says is worth hearing: re anti elitist stance. Not sure I agree with every word but very well observed. Lweji: she did more than stand by in ignorance. I still think you struggle to understand how people are seeing this. A lot of them are democrats (trumpcrats) who hate Hillary's guts in the most visceral way.

'Trump may not be a member of the Elite in the sense that he is part of the political machine, but he is clearly a member of the Elite in the sense that he is part of the economic machine that underpins the political one in the US.'

NoNew, unless Trump is tricking everyone, then he represents a huge challenge to the elite economic order as he has said he will scrap the entire international order of free trade deals and globalist power. What Trump threatens to do is Brexit on steroids, which is why the entire economic power structure is against him. The Establishment believe he means what he says and that is why they are desperate to stop him.

This is a Trump adviser

"Mr DiMicco called for an overhaul of the global free trade system.

"These are not idle threats," he told the BBC.

"Things have gotten so bad that we will leave Nafta [the North American Free Trade Agreement], WTO [the World Trade Organization] and the Korean Free Trade Agreement if we can't get a fair deal."

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37594928

The whole world is on notice and the entire world's political class is worried. Trump intends to chnge everything they have ever known.

This is from the leaks of alleged Hillary's transcripts in speeches to Wall Street etc released yesterday

"Hillary Private Speech: “My dream is a hemispheric common market, with open trade and open borders”

truepundit.com/hillary-private-speech-my-dream-is-a-hemispheric-common-market-with-open-trade-and-open-borders/

Trump is the exact opposite of that and that is why the real world's elite (not the bought and paid for political class with their here today, gone tomorrow four-year terms) are so worried by Trump.

Trump opposes the billionaires' agenda that the political class promote for them.

Powerful man uses power to grope and 'get' any women he want.

What will he do if he gets the ultimate power position of US President? Or is he a changed man?

Trump is finished. It's over. Even in the USA they aren't accepting "grabbing women by the pussy," as banter or "locker room talk."

Unsurprisingly, 51% of the voters see themselves as human beings with thoughts and feelings rather than "sex dispensers."

Old allegations, such as taping a 13 year old girl in the past will blubber up now. He is going to be buried in the fetid stew of his own past.

I'm looking forward to the first female US president.

'The problem for Trump is that Bill's past is his past, not hers'

No, the allegation is that she knew

Can you not see that knowing your husband is a sleaze bag is no where near the same as being a sleaze bag and boasting about grabbing women by the pussy?

Or are we going to keep blaming women for the actions of men?

Imagine continuing to cheer-lead someone who has boasted of their ability to sexually assault women with impunity by virtue of their power. Imagine choosing to side with a billionaire sex abuser.

If that's not enough to put someone off, what would it need?

well this might be just the thing:

Trump accused of raping 13 year old girl

I have always wondered what the Clinton campaign have up their sleeve to pull out at the last minute to finally sink the creep. I hope that the latest revelation is just setting the scene for when they slam him with something bigger. I hope someone, somewhere has some proof to back up these poor women's claims of being sexually assaulted by that disgusting man.

Trump is finished. It's over.

I do hope so. Given that DT doesn't perform well in a small town hall setting, hopefully Sunday night will see him off.

There is apparently no way he can be booted off by Republicans but a NY Times reporter tweets "Source tells me RNC officials are meeting in DC to discuss what options the party has going forward in case Trump isn't nominee"

"Then in a warning to his presidential opponent, he accused the Clintons of abusing and bullying women.

Mr Trump said: "I’ve said some foolish things, but there is a big difference between words and actions.

“Bill Clinton has actually abused women and Hillary has bullied, attacked, shamed and intimidated his victims.

“We will discuss this more in the coming days."

www.express.co.uk/news/world/718945/Donald-Trump-apology-Bill-Clinton-abuse-Hillary-grope-video

It all now depends on what Trump says in the debate

I think if Paul Ryan jumped in as nominee now, he would storm it.

I can't understand why he dropped out as candidate. Maybe the plan all along was to let Trump be Trump and scare people half to death, then swoop in at the last minute with someone like Ryan by which point people will be so relieved to have a Republican candidate who isn't an alleged sex offender that he will win by a country mile.

But I think the GOP will be forever tarnished by the fact that they even considered endorsing Trump in the first place. They abandoned their principles to back whoever might get them into power, despite the fact that they must have known as well as anyone what an unsuitable candidate he was. It's deplorable.

Paul Ryan is just awful. The rape allegation has been around for a while. I have no idea why it has not fatally damaged him before now.

The accusation against HC is enabling Bill and dismissing his victims, not ignorance.

Fatally damaged trump, I mean.

He would have to be stupid to bring Bill Clinton's past into the debate. It just invites the obvious rejoinder that he's not in a position to criticise, and that what Bill Clinton did years ago has got nothing to do with Hillary Clinton's ability to be president. If he makes attacking Bill Clinton part of the debate, he makes it open season on his own history. He knows full well that there are likely to be other recordings around, there are very credible reports that he behaved this way when recording The Apprentice.

Claig, are you seriously saying that you condone this? How can you possibly?

Riddle me this how can any sentient being support someone who has openly discussed how they have SEXUALLY ASSAULTED WOMEN.

Shame on you Claig bot a step too far even for you

I take it you still haven't gened up on how the election works - he wasn't going to win even before that disgusting tape. Now it's just about whether the Dems can get the Senate too.

Just think about how he would treat the Duchess of Cambridge on a state visit, or the maids, or any woman. He would make Saddamm and his sons look saintly

'I can't understand why he dropped out as candidate. '

I don't think Paul Ryan ever was a candidate and he is not popular with ordinary Republicans and independents, only with the Establishment Republicans, so he wouldn't stand a chance of beating Hillary.

'The rape allegation has been around for a while. I have no idea why it has not fatally damaged him before now.'

I don't think there is any evidence for it. It will probably all be dropped after the election. Dirty tricks are used by political operatives.

ZuleikaDobson, I don't think you are aware of what Bill Clinton is alleged to have done. I don't condone Trump's language but it is nothing in comparison to what Bill Clinton is alleged to have done, and the shocking thing is that lots and lots of people including world leaders must have known about it all.

I have no idea why [the rape allegation against Trump] has not fatally damaged him before now.

I think it's because the more moderate Trump supporters have been holding their noses and giving him the benefit of the doubt. Up to now they've been skeptical about "no smoke without fire". It looks like the stuff coming out now is just the tip of the iceberg. There comes a point when opinion between the two extremes shifts. This might be it.