Trump vs Clinton. Biggest debate in world history 2am tomorrow. Will you be there?

[claig]

The entire world's movers and shakers, swindlers and fakers, public money piss-takers will be watching in trepidation at what Trump will do to them. The entire world's great and the good, high and the mighty, shifty and flighty will be supporting Hillary. Will you be with the people supporting Trump?

Have you got the ice cream, the chocolate, the biscuits and the matchsticks to keep the eyelids open ready?

As a warm-up, here is Sky News's 30 minute documentary shown last night

"Trump. Could it really happen?"

There are allegations of possible voter fraud on both sides, it is not one-sided. There are allegations that Kennedy took it off Nixon and that Bush took it off Gore etc

The Establishment (both Democrat and Republican) are against Trump and that is what worries Trump because Trump has no control of events.

If whatever establishment really wanted him out, and they could, they'd have done it from the start, don't you think?

Voter fraud is a huge problem in my town. It particularly affects the Board of Education but also the mayoral vote too. In my town it is Democrats doing it as they square off against other Democratic nominees. It is awful that this happens. With our school board we have finally been able to have four years of proper candidates who had done a fab job in turning our school district around. They have another election coming up in November and the stakes are high because if we go back to the old way the superintendent, who is amazing, will leave. The only reason last time we didn't get the awful crooked candidate was because someone who was paid came forward and admitted that they had been paid for their mail in vote. The worst was I recall the amount paid being incredibly low at about $15 or so.

I don't doubt for a second HC has done this and will do this in this election too. Why else have the Clinton Foundation? I've lived here long enough and seen enough that she is totally going to be buying votes. Trump won't be buying votes because he is too cheap and I don't think he wants it. It also isn't his style to go out and buy votes. Do I think past Republican nominees have bought votes? Of course, starting with the Bush family for both sons.

'If whatever establishment really wanted him out, and they could, they'd have done it from the start, don't you think?'

I don't think so. I think we may be witnessing the takedown of a lot of crooks by a faction that supports Trump. We will have to wait and see what happens.

Lweji: I honestly believe that if they had ever thought he would get this far, they would have done. There was a shocking misjudgment of how his message resonates and how every barb would make him stronger - until his backers, plus a sizeable part of the population, no longer trusts the news media or official surveys/statistics/semi official bodies. His opponents have blunted their own weapon.

A lot of establishment on the Republican openly do not support Trump. He has been clear that if becomes President he will look to reduce the gravy train that is the US government. I don't blame these politicians for not supporting him. It is akin to turkey's voting for Thanksgiving.

Right now congress members have the best healthcare benefits hands down for themselves and their family until the day they pass where upon they are passed to the wife and all family members under the age of 26. Meanwhile, the little people of America are paying at a minimum 10% of their income on healthcare but in reality during the year some families are paying as much as 30% (the excess is refunded via their tax return but that isn't filed until after year end). Once you retire you pay for Medicare, which probably won't be around for the likes of us little people.

Meanwhile our elected people sit there on a damn nice pension that we can only dream of with healthcare unattainable by anyone. Of course they are not going to back Trump who wants to do away with this.

Of course they are not going to back Trump who wants to do away with this.

I have no problem with any candidate who would want to do away with the gravy train. In fact, I'd welcome any such candidate in any country.

The problem I have with Trump is that I don't think he will, or wants to, at all. It's just rethoric, as for many other things, because he lies blatantly and has changed tack in key issues or simply doesn't make his mind up. His track record, in fact, suggests that he will maintain the gravy train, or use it for personal benefit. (being no different from HC or other candidates in that respect)
Add that to the hate speech and his "temperament", and it's very bad news.

Besides, I seriously doubt he can made a dent on the benefits that Congress members receive.

But he can make bad dents internationally.

Lweji The issue is that HC doesn't want to get rid of the gravy train and she also has an issue with rhetoric without results. Also, HC has made enough bad dents internationally that American is already laughed at. What i don't like is that he hasn't shown any ability to listen during his campaign since nomination which is the most important factor when it comes to picking a leader. HC listens to her people and says the right things to win votes from certain sections of society.

Honestly I would like both of them to step down and for both parties to come up with another two candidates pronto.

From where I stand, internationally, the US is only being laughed at thanks to Trump.

Also, you can't say that Trump wants anything. People aren't even sure he really wants to be President. :)

Even internationally he swings between nuke them to stay out.

Want2bSupermum

Are the Republicans in favour of Medicare today, or against it?

Interestingly, an international poll came out today about who would other countries vote for.
45 countries, representing 75% of the population.

Hillary winds hands down, except in... wait for it... Russia.

wingia.com/en/news/presentation_of_results_from_global_vote_on_us_elections_esomar_congress_2016/366/

The vast majority thought that the US got more powerful or the same in the world, under Obama. Unlike what Trump is claiming.

How the world sees Trump:
Disregards rules 20%
Rough 17%
Stubborn 16%
Rude 16%
Emotionally less stable 15%
Less intelligent 15%
Uncontrolled 13%
Lower general mental
capacity 13%
Uninhibited 12%
Reactive emotionally 11%
Careless of social rules 11%
Impatient 11%
Impersonal 11%
Easily upset 9%

And Hillary:
Traditional 5%
Diplomatic 4%
Mature 4%
Assertive 4%
Organized 4%
Polished 3%
Self-assured 3%
Perfectionist 3%

Also worth reading about how the rigging "warning" about Pennsylvania could work out in Trump's favour.

www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/09/2016-election-pennsylvania-polls-voters-trump-clinton-214297

Although a few cases of fraud have been detected, it points out:
"But after four years of bird-dogging Philadelphia’s elections, the former analyst for Congress’ Government Accountability Office says any voter fraud happens on a small scale—too small to affect a major election."

PigletJohn Everyone loves Medicare because it is the best alternative out there. The reality is that it is unaffordable so will not be able to continue in its current form. The big questions are what changes will be made and when will those changes happen. Every group of politicians has been pushing the issue out into the future for someone else to deal with.

Lweji Obama is seen by weak by American voters and as its the American people that he serves that is all that matters. Remember the article Boris Johnson wrote? A lot of Americans agreed with him and thought Obama being, at best, rude to the UK and that this treatment was unacceptable given that we blindly followed the US into Iraq and Afghanistan. The general consensus was 'That's not how you treat your allies'. There are plenty of other issues internationally that Americans have not liked how Obama has behaved.

Trump is a disaster, HC is a disaster. I don't see a candidate that is worthy in this election.

I think we may be witnessing the takedown of a lot of crooks by a faction that supports Trump

How are we witnessing this, and where?

Let's wait and see what Trump does after he wins if he does.

its the American people that he serves that is all that matters

I agree. However you said people were laughing at the US and Trump wants to makeep America great again. So, how the candidates are seen internationally is relevant.

I agree that Hillary isn't great, but Trump is just awful in so many ways. And what he's promising is either unrealistic or blatant lies, or doesn't bear thinking about (like expelling muslims).

Let's wait and see what Trump does

Considering his track record and how he's behaved in the campaign, I really don't want to see what he does.

"it is unaffordable"

If the USA can afford to fund the world's most expensive (but not the world's best) healthcare "system" then it can afford to fund a wider but less profligate one.

Some would say that getting billionaires, and multi-billion corporations, to pay some tax, would be a help.

What do the better countries know that US doesn't?

That video badkitten is hilarious, well worth watching and don't Trump's supporters just typify the man himself?

Message is -
If Clinton wins, votes have been rigged. If Trump wins, there was no rigging.

However, his claim (in advance) really holds no water given that The Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) will send 26 long-term and 400 short-term observers to monitor whether U.S. election practices match international standards. Also in the past any claims of rigging has not affected the result.

Rather worrying that his fans are signing up to be an "Election Observer", is this going to be a peaceful election?

^Some would say that getting billionaires, and multi-billion corporations, to pay some tax, would be a help*. Love it PigletJohn!

It is very funny. The confused looks on some of their faces!

How is hurricane matthew going to affect the election? Along eastern coastal areas its likely power could be out for weeks. How close does Florida get?

Then of course Georgia and the Carolinas are in its path.

Rousette Those officials monitoring the voting process probably don't look at postal votes which is where the issues are. There should be a better system put in place so the buying of votes is made much more difficult. Just because they have not found it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. We had one person come forward here in my town and if you look at the sheer number of postal votes they tend to sway towards one candidate, often not the leading candidate based on votes as of polling day.

PigletJohn Spending has already decreased. I have seen it with the delivery of my 3 kids over the past 5 years. A local hospital has closed the nursery in the postnatal ward. The reality is that when you are making $100k as a household, expecting that family to pay $30k upfront and giving them back $20k at the end of the year does not work. That is why it is unaffordable. How the heck do you finance that? Credit card debt? Then you are stuck paying off the huge interest and penalty fees.

I also have a huge problem that Americans are fined if they don't have coverage yet an illegal immigrant living here isn't fined nor are they expected to pay their medical bill. The same rules should be applied universally. If you are here illegally or legally, if you don't have medical insurance the individual should be responsible for the bill.

Oh and power will be out for about a week in the more remote places. Everything will be back to normal by Oct 22nd.