McDonnell's Speech - Barnstormer. Panic in the usual circles

[claig]

Stunning speech by John McDonnell.

Elite in panic, 1% ers at a loss of what to do.
BBC probably instructed to try and stop the people.
Crisis meetings in gentlemens' clubs.
Directors, Director Generals, Lieutenants, Sergeants, Lords, Ladies, Barons and Baronesses in meltdown.

Teenage whizzkids at Oxbridge wooed with whopping wonga to staff think tanks whose aim is to stop the people.

All luvvies' leave cancelled, metropolitans told they have a mountain to climb to stop the people.

McDonnell, gamechanger? You betcha.

Elite already practising their pitch, sharpoening up their spin, calling all their luvvies in a last ditch attempt to stop the people. They'll be on TV tonight, the Tory-lites trying to do what the elite think is right, to stop the people with all their might.

Can the people win? Can they see through the luvvies' spin? Will they put the luvvies in the bin?

Jez they can!

Income tax affects the richest the most. The vast majority of hard working aspirational people in this country will not pass down more than £350k to their children. Those that pass down more are disproportionately drawn from the moneyed classes who belong to the Piers Gaveston and did PPE at Oxford.

I'm talking about Russian oligarchs basking in London whilst paying 0 taxes on their massive, massive wealth with no earned income at all. According to you that's just peachy!

Lucky Blair's children then! Blair is no doubt motivated by passing on his untaxed income in the form of wealth to his 4 kids. Perhaps if inheritance tax were higher he wouldn't have the same incentive.

'Can you explain your new buzzword "teenage whizzkids"?'

It's not new, I have been using it for ages.

Teenage implies wet behind the ears advisers from Oxbridge who have never had a real job and are SPADs. Whizzkids is ironic since that is how the spin portrays these advisers when in reality they are out-of-touch, clueless and naive and they mess up everything, spin, and waste public money on the Millenium Dome or hand public money to charidees with self-referring "clients".

sorry - should read "inheritance tax affects the richest the most"

'Perhaps if inheritance tax were higher he wouldn't have the same incentive.'

But why should every rich person in the country pay for what Blair does or doesn't do? If someone has done wrong, they should be punished. There shouldn't be collective Labour punishment for every rich and aspirational person who did no wrong just because some teenage whizzkids pulled the wool.

Inheritance tax is a social good, that stops inequality from perpetuating. Read Piketty - I know you like him - he explains it very well.

Passing on unearned wealth to your kids is one of the reasons inequality is accelerating in the Western world.

And you're naive if you don't think every rich person in this country employs an accountant to avoid tax. I would if I were rich!

'Those that pass down more are disproportionately drawn from the moneyed classes who belong to the Piers Gaveston and did PPE at Oxford.

I'm talking about Russian oligarchs basking in London whilst paying 0 taxes on their massive, massive wealth with no earned income at all. According to you that's just peachy!'

Unlike you, I have nothing against rich people and the Piers Gaveston if they are honest and have done no wrong. I don't believe in the politics of envy or in taking their wealth off them to hand it over to Gordon Bennett or any apparatchik.

I am not in favour of Russian oligarchs paying zero taxes, but that is what the political class have allowed. Putin wanst most of them extradited back to Russia so that they can face trial if they have robbed money from the Russian people, but the teenage advisers don't agree.

'Inheritance tax is a social good, that stops inequality from perpetuating. Read Piketty - I know you like him - he explains it very well.'

I don't like Piketty. I like Farage. I think inheritance tax is robbery of people's accumulated wealth earned over a lifetime. I am against it, I am against the political class (often paid money by lobbyists as our free press occasionally exposes) getting their hands of the hard work and wealth of ordinary people or rich people who are aspirational and have worked hard. I don't want the Gordon Bennetts to have more of the people's money to waste on the Millenium Dome or wind farms in Peru.

Yes, but most of them have accumulated their wealth through tax avoidance, which you deplore.

Tax avoidance if very hard to stop, but collecting inheritance tax ensures we recoup some of our losses.

Actually, there are many friends of Putin buying up property in London - not just his enemies. Putin doesn't care if people have stole millions from the state, he only cares if they set themselves against him. He himself has a large fortune plundered from Russia's coffers.

So why do you automatically say that someone who has done PPE or belongs to the Piers Gaveston is suspect??

'Yes, but most of them have accumulated their wealth through tax avoidance, which you deplore.'

I don't believe that most rich people in this country have done anything illegal or fiddled expenses etc. They are not politicians, they are hard-working people. Some have fiddled, some Oxbridge types may have swung the lead, but that doesn't mean that we should penalise every aspirational and successful person in this country for the wrong-doings of the crooks, cronies and club members.

'Tax avoidance is very hard to stop'

This is the politics of pessimism, probably the politics of Piers Gaveston. Trump will soak Wall Street. That is why they are all against him and why the people are behind him.

'So why do you automatically say that someone who has done PPE or belongs to the Piers Gaveston is suspect??'

I don't. There are lots of good PPEs like the excellent Guardian's left wing journalist Seumas Milne, Nick Cohen etc I don't know any Piers Gaveston people so I can't say about them. But there are an awful lot of PPEs at the top levels who say that "tax avoidance is very hard to stop", who waste public money on follies while foodbanks proliferate and whom I think work for the interests of the elite as opposed to the interests of the people.

This what part of McDonnell's speech yeaterday

"We need to prove to the British people we can run the economy better than the rich elite that runs it now"

That appeals to millions of Labour voters and millions of non-Labour voters who all share the belief that an elite is messing up our country, wasting public money on follies, fancies, teenage whizzes and charidees instead of fixing the economy to create jobs and prosperity for the people.

But,, I now think that Corbyn and McDonnell are the "toothless two", they lack courage, they aren't the straight-talkers they pretend to be, they have crumbled under Establishment pressure and the teenage whizzkids from Oxbridge who work for the elite have outwitted them and will defeat them, and it is all because they lack the necessary courage to stand up for the people against the elites.

It is sad because it will disappoint millions of good, hard-working people in this country. The Piers Gaveston are doing the conga as the Esatblishment laughs in relief.

You don't believe most rich people employ accountants to minimise their tax liability? Really?

It's a reality. Tax avoidance is a difficult thing to stop. We should still try. Inheritance tax is also relatively easy to avoid with trusts etc. They should be banned.

I don't think anyone would deny tax avoidance is difficult to stop. It will never be 100% stopped but we should try harder.

PPE is OK if they spout Kremlin talking points...got it.

I know you were keen to see a full throated defence of years of toadying up to various 3rd world dictators, but fortunately Corbyn and McDonnell are intelligent enough to know that their backbench shenanigans are political suicide in the shadow cabinet.

And even if we did stop all tax avoidance, raising large amounts of money is really only feasible by targetting the middle class - i.e. those earning enough to be taxed at 40% currently.

'You don't believe most rich people employ accountants to minimise their tax liability? Really?'

Of course I believe that Blair employs accountants, but there is nothing illegal in that.

'I don't think anyone would deny tax avoidance is difficult to stop'

Vested interests say that it is difficult to stop because they don't want to take on the rich and powerful elite or are in their pocket. Of course it can be stopped and Trump has said he will soak Wall Street and hit the hedge funds hard and that is why they are all against him.

'PPE is OK if they spout Kremlin talking points'

Does Nick Cohen do that? I think you need to read and learn a bit more. Put down Tony Blair's "The Journey" and read Nick Cohen and the Daily Mail.

"I know you were keen to see a full throated defence of years of toadying up to various 3rd world dictators"

No, on the contray, I thought with Corbyn we might see an ethical foreign policy and no more of progressive Blair and his idea of "progress".

"Tony Blair gives Kazakhstan’s autocratic president tips on how to defend a massacre

Tony Blair told the Nursultan Nazarbayev that the deaths of 14 protesters 'tragic though they were, should not obscure the enormous progress' his country had made"

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/tony-blair/11052965/Tony-Blair-gives-Kazakhstans-autocratic-president-tips-on-how-to-defend-a-massacre.html

'And even if we did stop all tax avoidance, raising large amounts of money is really only feasible by targetting the middle class'

That sounds like something out of Piers Gaveston. There is no need to hit the squeezed middle as Donald Trump has shown in the United States.

Of course I believe that Blair employs accountants, but there is nothing illegal in that.

No, as we have discussed - tax avoidance is legal, and almost all rich people utilise it.

Vested interests say that it is difficult to stop because they don't want to take on the rich and powerful elite or are in their pocket. Of course it can be stopped and Trump has said he will soak Wall Street and hit the hedge funds hard and that is why they are all against him.

You think it's easy to go up against the elite?

No, on the contray, I thought with Corbyn we might see an ethical foreign policy and no more of progressive Blair and his idea of "progress".

Are Hamas & Hezbollah ethical? Is Putin ethical?

That sounds like something out of Piers Gaveston. There is no need to hit the squeezed middle as Donald Trump has shown in the United States.

Donald Trump has not yet done anything. The easiest thing to tax is income, through PAYE as it is very hard to avoid. Therefore, the easiest and least popular way to raise money is to raise PAYE taxes.

'You think it's easy to go up against the elite?'

Of course it isn't. It takes rare courage like Farage has.

'Are Hamas & Hezbollah ethical? Is Putin ethical?'

Putin is ethical. Corbyn ought to have the courage to say what he believes and why he believes it. People respect honesty even if they disagree with what he says.

'Therefore, the easiest and least popular way to raise money is to raise PAYE taxes.'

Trump will offer zero tax for millions and slash middle class tax and he will hit Wall Street with PAYE etc. It can be done if a politician is not in the elite's pocket.

It is a darn sight harder if the following happens

"Tories could cut a fifth of staff at department that chases tax dodgers, union warns"

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/tories-could-cut-fifth-staff-5719232

Of course it isn't. It takes rare courage like Farage has.

When has Farage suggested increasing tax take? And if it's so hard, why is it so easy to raise taxes?

Putin is ethical. Corbyn ought to have the courage to say what he believes and why he believes it. People respect honesty even if they disagree with what he says.

Yes, preventing MSF from delivering aid, letting those in the Donbas starve - so ethical! hurryupharry.org/2015/09/26/donbas-can-starve-say-rebel-leaders/

Trump will offer zero tax for millions and slash middle class tax and he will hit Wall Street with PAYE etc. It can be done if a politician is not in the elite's pocket.

If he can find the elite's money, they'll stash it in the Isle of Man. That's the problem. The elite don't earn an income; they earn interest on their wealth. That's why you need to tax wealth - especially after death.

'When has Farage suggested increasing tax take?'

He hasn't, he is for lower taxes, but he challneges the Establishment on lots of other issues such as the EU, climate change, immigration and political correctness. That is why they all united to try and stop him.

I don't believe Harry's Place or people bombing civilians in Donbas.

'If he can find the elite's money, they'll stash it in the Isle of Man. '

I don't think you understand Trump. He says that world leaders and countries will respect him and of course they will. He is not a paid for and bought politician, he is The Donald, and the elite will respect him too and pay their taxes.

You don't believe MSF are being prevented access to the Donbas?

www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/in-eastern-ukraine-most-western-aid-agencies-have-been-blocked/2015/09/17/fcfc6c1a-5cb4-11e5-8e9e-dce8a2a2a679_story.html

www.doctorswithoutborders.org/article/msf-refused-permission-work-lugansk

I don't think you understand Trump. He says that world leaders and countries will respect him and of course they will. He is not a paid for and bought politician, he is The Donald, and the elite will respect him too and pay their taxes.

Why will they respect him?

He hasn't, he is for lower taxes, but he challneges the Establishment on lots of other issues such as the EU, climate change, immigration and political correctness. That is why they all united to try and stop him.

He challenges them everywhere other than where it hurts them the most: their pocket. That's why you like him so much :) That and his adoration of Putin.

'Why will they respect him?'

In the same way that Trump says that Putin has zero respect for Obama, but will respect Trump. Everyone will respect Trump or they will find out what happens if they don't. Trump is straight-talking and means what he says. If the elite try and play tricks on Trump, he will let them know what a mistake they have made.

Why do you think that MSF has been denied entry? Why? What is it about them that has led to this denial?

'He challenges them everywhere other than where it hurts them the most: their pocket. '

No because according to you they can all avoid tax by going offshore. What hurts them is anti EU, anti climate change con and anti political correctness thought control and stifling of freedom.

In the same way that Trump says that Putin has zero respect for Obama, but will respect Trump. Everyone will respect Trump or they will find out what happens if they don't. Trump is straight-talking and means what he says. If the elite try and play tricks on Trump, he will let them know what a mistake they have made.

Are you saying Trump's going to have an itchy trigger finger? Do you not think that's an exceptionally dangerous proposition?

Why do you think that MSF has been denied entry? Why? What is it about them that has led to this denial?

Because Putin's lost control of the insane asylum and his goons in Eastern Ukraine care more about controlling the people and stopping them getting out. They are worried about a "counter revolution", the people expressing their displeasure at being shot at by Putin's vacationing soldiers: novosti.dn.ua/details/260278/

No because according to you they can all avoid tax by going offshore. What hurts them is anti EU, anti climate change con and anti political correctness thought control and stifling of freedom.

Not according to you though!

'Are you saying Trump's going to have an itchy trigger finger?'

Trump doesn't need an itchy trigger finger. He says he will "make America great again" and everyone knows he will and when he has talks with world leaders, he says they will respect him and respect America and of course they will. Trump means business, he is straight-talking and means what he says. If anyone tries to trick him over taxes etc, there will be sanctions and all sorts until they pay up.

'Because Putin's lost control of the insane asylum and his goons in Eastern Ukraine care more about controlling the people and stopping them getting out. '

That's not the reason. Why do you think they have denied MSF entry? What is it about MSF and the NGOs?

'Not according to you though!'

Not with Trump in charge or any other politician who is not a paid for and bought puppet of the elite.

Trump doesn't need an itchy trigger finger. He says he will "make America great again" and everyone knows he will and when he has talks with world leaders, he says they will respect him and respect America and of course they will. Trump means business, he is straight-talking and means what he says. If anyone tries to trick him over taxes etc, there will be sanctions and all sorts until they pay up.

Why would they respect a man who's gone bankrupt so many times, who flip flops on every issue? You don't get respect by saying "respect me", you know.

That's not the reason. Why do you think they have denied MSF entry? What is it about MSF and the NGOs?

Yes it is. The Donetsk insurgents from Russia only care about making sure they retain power. They don't care about civilians starving, or not getting medication, or dying from diabetes - Russia's got their back. Russia doesn't give a shit about the civilians and the civilians know it. They don't want anyone in Donetsk who threatens their grip on civilians. It's sad. I assume you think that MSF really were distributing psychotropic drugs??

Not with Trump in charge or any other politician who is not a paid for and bought puppet of the elite.

Please do explain how Trump will stop wealth offshoring when he does it himself???

'Why would they respect a man who's gone bankrupt so many times'

Because Trump is not politically correct, he is fearless, he breaks the rules the Establishment pundits set and everyone knows he means business. They would be stupid not to respect Trump, and although they are spinners and liars, they aren't stupid. That is why the Establishment is in panic over Trump's runaway success. They know if he gets in, then the global warming con is over.

'They don't care about civilians starving, or not getting medication, or dying from diabetes - Russia's got their back.'

Then why did they let Russian aid in?

'Russia doesn't give a shit about the civilians and the civilians know it.'

The Ukrainian government has stopped their pension payments and bomb civilians. Without Russian aid the place would collapse.

'They don't want anyone in Donetsk who threatens their grip on civilians. It's sad. I assume you think that MSF really were distributing psychotropic drugs??'

You have nearly understood why the MSF have been denied entry but it has nothing to do with dugs.

'Please do explain how Trump will stop wealth offshoring when he does it himself???'

Because Trump will run the government and will have the resources of the US government and will be able to decide priorities and carry out tax crackdown policies. He is not in the elite's pocket. He is not a normal politician. He is not part of the political class. That is why he is so popular with Conservative voters.