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Politics

McDonnell's Speech - Barnstormer. Panic in the usual circles

156 replies

claig · 28/09/2015 12:56

Stunning speech by John McDonnell.

Elite in panic, 1% ers at a loss of what to do.
BBC probably instructed to try and stop the people.
Crisis meetings in gentlemens' clubs.
Directors, Director Generals, Lieutenants, Sergeants, Lords, Ladies, Barons and Baronesses in meltdown.

Teenage whizzkids at Oxbridge wooed with whopping wonga to staff think tanks whose aim is to stop the people.

All luvvies' leave cancelled, metropolitans told they have a mountain to climb to stop the people.

McDonnell, gamechanger? You betcha.

Elite already practising their pitch, sharpoening up their spin, calling all their luvvies in a last ditch attempt to stop the people. They'll be on TV tonight, the Tory-lites trying to do what the elite think is right, to stop the people with all their might.

Can the people win? Can they see through the luvvies' spin? Will they put the luvvies in the bin?

Jez they can!

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Alyosha · 30/09/2015 15:39

Well, biggest threat after Assad, ISIS etc. etc. And maybe for the past 20 years, not of all time.

claig · 30/09/2015 15:42

'We force British business to buy this expensive steel. British businesses become less competitive & raise their prices. They lose overseas contracts. They go bust. More people lose their jobs.'

We save 1700 jobs just like Italy saved their steel jobs and when the price of commodities increases gain, the price of steel goes up again. Instead of wasting taxpayer money on wind farms in Columbia and Turkey to combat the flatulence of cattle which harms the "planet" supposedly, we put taxpayer money into our own country to save our own industries and jobs. This forces exporters to invest and increase productivity and make better products for the world market. It is a model that the Germans followed and they are the number one or two manufacturing exporter in the world. We keep industrial production skills in our country rather than subsidising rich aristocrats to erect windfarms on their estates.

'but the govt. hasn't intervened to save jobs at Tesco or jobs elsewhere in the economy. Why is steel a special case?'

Because steel is vital to manufacturing and building and infrastructure in a way that selling soap isn't. We need to maintain manufacturing skills in order to export and produce and once again be the workshop of the world.

'but in general Free Trade = good.'

It has gone much too far and benefits speculators and has ruined workers' rights and decimated our skilled manufacturing industry which has led to us becoming a zero-hour contract low-paid low-skilled low-productivity service sector nation overly dependent on the City and its calls to bail them out. Donald Trump is going to change it and the modernisers will all start singing in chorus to The Donald's hymnsheet when it happens.

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Alyosha · 30/09/2015 16:01

I've heard it all when someone uses Italy as an example of a successful economy.

www.economist.com/news/business/21583283-years-crisis-have-reinforced-pressure-italys-once-envied-industrial-base-washout

Huge Italian firms lay off workers, Italian state pays them 80% of their salary - typical corporate benefit handout! Why do you support this kind of insanity?

And what if the price of Steel remains depressed for the next 10 years? Where are the factories in the UK that will buy this? How many countries can be the workshops of Europe? Surely some have to buy our products in order for us to be successful? Not every country can produce everything.

I think in truth we are moving to a post-work society. self driving cars will eliminate millions of jobs. Profits will soar. we need higher corporation tax to provide a minimum income in the future - talking about manufacturing is missing the point. In the future, very few people will have jobs. Our choices are either mass unemployment or redployment of profit towards minimum incomes.

claig · 30/09/2015 16:21

I didn't say Italy wa a successful economy, I said they protected their steel industry and we haven't.

"Almost one manufacturing firm in five shut between 2009 and 2012, and the carnage continues unabated. Italy has long been Europe’s second-biggest manufacturing power, beaten only by Germany. It still is, just about, but its production base is being jeopardised by competition from abroad and the downturn at home."

Italy was a great manufacturing nation, ahead of us, who were once the workshop of the world and who gave railways to the world. The reason Italy has suffered is because their political class put them into the Euro and they now can't be competitive in a world economic downturn. But the Italian government rightly tries to protect their remaining industrial base so that when we eventually emerge from the worldwide downturn (when Donald Trump takes the world out of it) then there will still be something left in Italy that can be fired up again and start producing again.

'Italian state pays them 80% of their salary - typical corporate benefit handout! Why do you support this kind of insanity?'

Because Italy is not like here. In Italy there would be a revolution if the technocrats in government went too far in hitting workers' rights and union rights, so just as in France, the elite have to step very carefully.

'And what if the price of Steel remains depressed for the next 10 years? Where are the factories in the UK that will buy this?'

In the new Labour Party that you are not a fan of, Corbyn will force the Bank Of England to lend money for infrastructure projects and we will rebuild our country and railways and homes and we will use the stell that our workers produce to do it. Factories will spring up to service the demands of infrastructure renewal.

'How many countries can be the workshops of Europe? '

I am not particularly interested if Slovenia can be the workshop of Europe or not, what I amn interested in is that Britain becomes the workshop of Europe and we use our taxpayer money to ensure industrial investment instead of Gordon Bennettian investment in wind farms and Millenium Domes.

'Surely some have to buy our products in order for us to be successful? Not every country can produce everything.'

But why does that mean that we shouldn't produce things, invest in infrastructure and industrial development and save our stell industry. I am not a Bennettian.

'I think in truth we are moving to a post-work society'

That is what the elite want in their green new world and that is what they want their servant political clas to deliver for them so that people's living standards decline and millions more become part of the planned precariat. But there is resistance - there is UKIP and above all there is Doanld Trump. American people understand the elite's game, now they have a challenge.

"'President Trump' May Not Be So Far-Fetched - And the Polls Scare the Establishment to Death"

'we need higher corporation tax to provide a minimum income in the future - talking about manufacturing is missing the point. In the future, very few people will have jobs. Our choices are either mass unemployment or redployment of profit towards minimum incomes.'

You really don't understand the elite at all. Do you think they are going to give a good lifestyle to people whom they term "scroungers". Don't you know what they are planning in their green new world for what Kissinger is said to have called "the useless eaters"?

But UKIP and Donald Trump will stop them and Corbyn will not be far behind. It ain't over yet. The people are back.

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claig · 30/09/2015 17:07

Here is Suzanne Moore in the Guardian pointing towards the future

"Boris Johnson's philosophy isn't just elitist – it's sinister
...
He has said what he really thinks. Will the electorate, the great lumpen mass of obviously stupid people, swallow it? Rich people are rich because they are better, cleverer, more ambitious.
...
The Tories increasingly favour genetic explanations for inequality. If whole swaths of us are born poor, dumb and without the drive to get to Eton, never mind a jobcentre, it's our own stupid fault.
...
A genetically determinist argument – part selfish gene, part antisocial goonishness – is now in favour. This is more than elitism. It is sinister."

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/28/boris-johnson-philosophy-elitist-sinister-london-mayor

When there are no more high-paying jobs apart from for Big Brother's Inner Party apparatchiks, when industrialisation has been reversed, when industry has been shut down, when wind farms generate not enough energy, when power cuts are regular and when fuel bills rocket through the roof, when people become redundant due to automation, the elite won't provide a pleasure paradise for the unemployed, for those who they deem not "clever" enough. Blair will be alright, he'll be dining with dictators, throwing parties in his multiple mansions, but millions won't be doing so well.

I don't like Corbyn's political correctness or half his crazy ideas. When I watch the Labour Party Conference, I don't see ordinary people who represent millions of ordinary Middle England voters, I see too many apparatchiks who are so politically correct, they even surpass Cameron. I don't like it, but at the end of the day, they are better than the elitists, they at least are on our side even if they get lots of things wrong and believe half of the lies told by the elite.

Why do you think the Establishment are so terrified of Trump? He is a billionaire after all, surely he is one of them? But he isn't and he knows the game which is why they are terrified of him.

"'President Trump' May Not Be So Far-Fetched - And the Polls Scare the Establishment to Death"

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MyFavouriteClintonisGeorge · 30/09/2015 17:17

rooftop wind turbine manufacturers this genuinely made me laugh. Thanks, claig.

And everybody, arguing with claig is like wrestling with a pig. You both get dirty, but the pig likes it.

claig · 30/09/2015 17:49

'rooftop wind turbine manufacturers this genuinely made me laugh. Thanks, claig.'

The old ones are the best Grin

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MyFavouriteClintonisGeorge · 30/09/2015 17:52

a propos Trump, special treat for you all:

McDonnell's Speech - Barnstormer. Panic in the usual circles
claig · 30/09/2015 17:57

It looks more like Boris than Trump.

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MyFavouriteClintonisGeorge · 30/09/2015 18:09

Ah, no, Boris uses this guinea pig:

McDonnell's Speech - Barnstormer. Panic in the usual circles
claig · 30/09/2015 18:11
Grin

True

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claig · 30/09/2015 19:14

"Trump on Putin Controlling Syria: ‘OK, Fine,’ Him Fighting ISIS ‘Wonderful Thing,’ ‘Very Little Downside’
...
On Tuesday’s “O’Reilly Factor” on the Fox News Channel, Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump stated that it’s “a wonderful thing” Russia’s Vladimir Putin is fighting ISIS and responded “Alright, okay, fine” after host Bill O’Reilly stated Putin would “never get out” of Syria.

Trump said [relevant exchange begins around 3:55] of “in terms of leadership, he’s getting an A, and our president is not doing so well.”

When asked what he thinks Putin is doing in the Middle East, Trump stated, “Well, we spent $2 trillion, thousands of lives, wounded warriors all over, and Putin is now taking over what we started, and he’s going into Syria, and he frankly wants to fight ISIS, and I think that’s a wonderful thing. You know, I said that a year ago and everybody said oh, that’s terrible. If he wants to fight ISIS, let him fight ISIS. Why do we always have to do everything. But he wants to go in. He wants to fight ISIS. Now, he wants to keep, as you know, he wants to keep your leadership, your current leadership, Assad in Syria. Personally I’ve been looking at the different players, and I’ve been watching Assad, and I’ve been pretty good at this stuff over the years, cause deals are people. And I’m looking at Assad and saying, ‘Maybe he’s better than the kind of people that we’re supposed to be backing.’ Because we don’t even know who we’re backing.”

Trump added that there’s “very little downside with Putin fighting ISIS, and Putin wants to keep ISIS out of Russia and, therefore, he’s become very active with respect to ISIS, and I think that’s to our benefit.”

O’Reilly stated, “Once Putin gets in and fights ISIS on behalf of Assad, Putin runs Syria. He owns it. He’ll never get out, never.” Trump said, “Alright, okay, fine. I mean, you know, we can be in Syria. Do you want to run Syria? Do you want to own Syria? I want to rebuild our country.”

www.breitbart.com/video/2015/09/29/trump-on-putin-controlling-syria-okay-fine-him-fighting-isis-wonderful-thing-very-little-downside/

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claig · 30/09/2015 19:23

'Speaking about Putin he said that if he were elected he would be able to be friends with the Russian leader, and then praised his skills.

'I will tell you that, in terms of leadership, he's getting an "A" and our president is not doing so well,' he said.

'They did not look good together,' he added, referring to their recent tense meeting at the United Nations General Assembly in New York.

He also said he agreed with Putin on his backing of Syrian President Bashar Assad.'

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3254412/Donald-Trump-calls-Putin-better-leader-Obama-admits-grow-Republican-nomination-ends-week-long-self-imposed-exile-Fox-News.html

Incredible stuff. Front runner in race for Republican nomination for President, billionaire, no puppet. What can they do about him?

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claig · 30/09/2015 19:25

What is going on in the world? Corbyn, Farage, Trump. Are the people back?

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claig · 30/09/2015 19:32

I feel sorry for the climate change gang - the Lords, Ladies, Baronesses, the New Labour grandees, the LibDem worthies or unworthies, the Tory modernisers and the poor old rooftop wind turbine hawkers, squawkers and sellers.

Trump is going to spoil the party. The people will party like it's 1999. Grin

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caroldecker · 01/10/2015 00:14

claig It will be like the UKIP performance in the general election, lots of noise but no power or influence.

claig · 01/10/2015 00:22

'It will be like the UKIP performance in the general election, lots of noise but no power or influence.'

But unlike Farage who had no money and needed millionaires who stitched him up half the time because they are really Tories who only want to leave the EU and don't have any other UKIP values, Trump is a billionaire who doesn't need to beg and scrape to donors, no one can buy him, no one tells him what to do. He even says he supports Putin's stance in backing Assad which no puppet would dare to say. They can't control Trump and the Republican real Conservative voters love him even if the Republican elite are petrified of him.

However, as conspiracy theorists say, Trump may be a phoney candidate whose role is to help politically correct Clinton, just like Ross Perot whom we all loved ended up being a phoney who betrayed us and whose role was to help Bill Clinton. Only time will tell and we will find out if Trump deliberatley self-destructs his campain to let Clinton in, but if he doesn't and if he is in it to the end, then just as we all loved Perot, the good, decent American Conservatives and the majority of the people will back Trump over politically correct Clinton every day of the week.

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Grazia1984 · 01/10/2015 07:25

Free trade has not gone far enough, not the other way round.

claig · 01/10/2015 07:47

Grazia, the world has changed.

We have seen the extraordinary rise of Farage and the People's Army who struck fear into the elite. Then we witnessed the shock rise of Corbyn who defeated all of the elite's candidates, and finally we have the biggest and most important shock ever - the rise of the people's Presidential candidate, The Donald. Here is what he says and when the elite heard it, they called for their meds and knocked them back in haste. Utter panic is an understatement, emergency phone calls to puppets was the norm, crisis meetings were convened.

This is what Trump said

"We need fair trade. Not free trade. We need fair trade. It’s gotta be fair."

It's clear that the people are back!

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claig · 01/10/2015 07:58

And the really worrying thing for the elite and every single one of their puppets and modernisers on the planet is the panic inducing tweet on Trump's twitter account, which is monitored 24-7 by the elite's teenage whizzkids.

When the teenages ran like fury to the elite's office to inform them of Trump's latest earth-shattering tweet, there were reports of fainting in the room, cries of anguish and abusive berating of puppets.

This is what the ground breaking Trump tweet said.

"This global warming BULLSHIT has got to stop"

We are in a new world. The people are back!

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claig · 01/10/2015 08:06

When Trump takes over there will be so much grovelling to him from puppets across the planet, it will be the biggest laugh ever.

Modernisers will pretend they have always been old school, that they were real Conservatives all along, spin will end and straight talking Trump tweets will be the norm and paid-for Baronesses on expenses who draw up global warming schemes, fancies and follies will find they aren't invited to Trump's dinner parties and the people will be invited instead.

Here is one of Trump's statements that made the elite's blood run cold.

"Look, they don't respect our president. They don't respect our country. They will respect me. They won't be doing it."

The people are back!

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Alyosha · 01/10/2015 15:15

I didn't say Italy wa a successful economy, I said they protected their steel industry and we haven't.

What's the point of having a strong steel industry if it doesn't help the rest of the economy? I'm sure it's great for those employed in steel, but having people employed in industrial jobs is not some kind of platonic ideal, it's supposed to serve a wider purpose; i.e. to create things that people will buy. If people won't buy it because it's too expensive, there's not much point in keeping it open.

Italy was a great manufacturing nation, ahead of us, who were once the workshop of the world and who gave railways to the world. The reason Italy has suffered is because their political class put them into the Euro and they now can't be competitive in a world economic downturn. But the Italian government rightly tries to protect their remaining industrial base so that when we eventually emerge from the worldwide downturn (when Donald Trump takes the world out of it) then there will still be something left in Italy that can be fired up again and start producing again.

I don't think it's a great idea to subsidise poorly performing business sectors on the off chance that one day they might come back. In my mind we should have no agricultural or business corporate benefits at all, and a much stronger social welfare system to support people to get the jobs that do exist, rather than wishing that well paid industrial jobs will magically come back when it is uneconomic to do so. I don't want to be giving large businesses huge benefits & tax breaks - we should be using that money on our people, to upskill them and train them for the jobs that they can do.

Because Italy is not like here. In Italy there would be a revolution if the technocrats in government went too far in hitting workers' rights and union rights, so just as in France, the elite have to step very carefully.

I thought you loved Thatcher because she crushed the unions? France & Italy didn't have a Thatcher and as a consequence they have stronger worker protections - if you are lucky enough to get a job and if you are lucky enough to be employed permanently rather than as a contractor. I am all for strong worker protections but do try to be consistent...

In the new Labour Party that you are not a fan of, Corbyn will force the Bank Of England to lend money for infrastructure projects and we will rebuild our country and railways and homes and we will use the stell that our workers produce to do it. Factories will spring up to service the demands of infrastructure renewal.

So taxpayers will give enormous handouts to wealthy businesses. great. We will pay over the odds for railways, homes & other services and at the end of this spending spree we will still be left with excess capacity to sell to the rest of the world, who won't buy it from us because of our protectionist policies. What a wonderful plan!

I am not particularly interested if Slovenia can be the workshop of Europe or not, what I amn interested in is that Britain becomes the workshop of Europe and we use our taxpayer money to ensure industrial investment instead of Gordon Bennettian investment in wind farms and Millenium Domes.

I know that in your UKIP fantasy land Britain would be the only country in the world (or Russia - who knows) - but European countries will need to buy things from us in order for us to be the workshop of Europe. If we impose trade tariffs and row back on free trade because we want to develop our own steel industry, we will certainly not be the workshop of Europe, we will be the workshop of the UK. Foreign investment will withdraw and lots and lots of people will lose their jobs.

But why does that mean that we shouldn't produce things, invest in infrastructure and industrial development and save our stell industry. I am not a Bennettian.

Well claig, in order for us to sell enough heavy metal to sustain a huge industry, similar to that we had in the 50s, we would need someone to buy it from us. Now, if we are refusing to buy from other countries & imposing trade tariffs and forcing British companies to buy British & excluding foreign companies from state contracts, no one is going to buy anything from us. Perhaps we should re invade India and the rest of the empire to create a captive market? Is that the UKIP dream?

That is what the elite want in their green new world and that is what they want their servant political clas to deliver for them so that people's living standards decline and millions more become part of the planned precariat. But there is resistance - there is UKIP and above all there is Doanld Trump. American people understand the elite's game, now they have a challenge.

That is what will happen if we don't raise corporation tax, inheritance tax and massively tool up an alternative welfare state with a good minimum income.

*You really don't understand the elite at all. Do you think they are going to give a good lifestyle to people whom they term "scroungers". Don't you know what they are planning in their green new world for what Kissinger is said to have called "the useless eaters"?

But UKIP and Donald Trump will stop them and Corbyn will not be far behind. It ain't over yet. The people are back.*

Well I'm sure they are, claig. That's why it's so important to vote for people who will increase inheritance tax, corporation tax and income tax on the upper middle classes.

claig · 01/10/2015 16:14

'What's the point of having a strong steel industry if it doesn't help the rest of the economy?'

Because steel is vital for buildings, trains, bridges, cars and every other fantastic product that makes people's lives better unlike Tony Blair's faith foundations and similar charidees some of which receive taxpayer funding to support their operations and the salaries of their Labour luvvies.

'I don't think it's a great idea to subsidise poorly performing business sectors on the off chance that one day they might come back. '

But I bet you think it is a great idea to subsidise the banks and the hedge funds.

' In my mind we should have no agricultural or business corporate benefits at all'

Then we wouldn't have any railways or a strong farming sector. I prefer to cut taxpayer subsidies to Labour luvvies in charidees than to hard working farmers who provide healthy produce that people need.

'a much stronger social welfare system to support people to get the jobs that do exist'

I don't understand this. Is this Gordon Bennett speak?

'I thought you loved Thatcher because she crushed the unions? '

You thought wrong. I love Thatcher because she stood up for the middle class, the squeezed middle that the Labour luvvies always squeeze, the aspirational middle that Gordon Bennet and the gang always look down on.

'So taxpayers will give enormous handouts to wealthy businesses. great'

Instead of taxpayers giving QE and loans to banks, they will invest it in building schools, hospitals, roads, airports, infrastructure and houses so that people's lives are improved and so that businesses thrive by providing infrastructue that helps society. If I were in charge, I would slash the Labour luvvie charidees, the Crystal Methodist charidees, and the third sector and invest it in products, homes and infrastructure for people which would proide them with real jobs and employment as well.

'at the end of this spending spree we will still be left with excess capacity to sell to the rest of the world, who won't buy it from us because of our protectionist policies. What a wonderful plan!'

No, i agree with Corbyn that we should upscale our broadband across the entire nation to put us on the same footing as countries that do invest for their people so that our brilliant, creative, innovative people can become more productive and invent more things that benefit people across the world.

'If we impose trade tariffs and row back on free trade because we want to develop our own steel industry, we will certainly not be the workshop of Europe, we will be the workshop of the UK. Foreign investment will withdraw and lots and lots of people will lose their jobs. '

No it won't. We don'y yet open up our NHS to foreign industries in a large way and even though we do let foreign indystries build and run our nuclear power plants, it doesn't have to be that way. We have the skills and ingenuity to do what they can do except that our people are denied the opportunity thanks to the City fat cats who don't invest in our people. I agree with Corbyn, let's have a National Investment Bank that invests our taxpayer money in our people and not in Labour luvvies in charidees and rich landowners who erect wind farms on their estates. Some sectors would be considered strategic and would be protected by the state and steel would be one, just as it is in Italy, who still manage to sell to the rest of Europe despite supporting national industries.

'Foreign investment will withdraw and lots and lots of people will lose their jobs.'

Foreign investment locates here to use our talented, educated people resource and our state subsidised infrastructure and networks in order to sell to our relatively affluent society in order to make a profit. If it is only here to rip us off aided by Establishment City stooges, then we can do without it and invest our money in our industries instead of Labour luvvie charidees.

'Well claig, in order for us to sell enough heavy metal to sustain a huge industry, similar to that we had in the 50s, we would need someone to buy it from us. '

No we would support a core industry sufficient to our internal needs to develop our infrastructure to make our lives better even if that means cutting government subsidies to Labour luvvies.

'no one is going to buy anything from us'

So where will they get their life-saving pharmaceutical drugs and their pop music and their Prmeier League rights etc from?

'Perhaps we should re invade India and the rest of the empire to create a captive market? Is that the UKIP dream?'

Just as foreign companies should not be here to rip us off, we also would not rip anyone else off. This is not New Labour. We would create products and services that the world needs and we would sell them and we would also prevent our framers from going out of business because they provide valuable produce that our people need. It's common sense, not Gordon Bennett logic.

'That is what will happen if we don't raise corporation tax, inheritance tax and massively tool up an alternative welfare state with a good minimum income.'

Do you think Boris Johnson will do that, do you think the City will do that, do you think Tony Blair will do that or will it be Corbyn who is the only one who does that? And do you think Corbyn will get elected and if he doesn't then hiow will it happen? Do you think there will be a Big Brother dicatorship that forces it to happen and don't you realise who runs Big Brother and that they will never allow it to happen?

'That's why it's so important to vote for people who will increase inheritance tax, corporation tax and income tax on the upper middle classes.'

So now you want to finally vote for Corbyn. I prefer Trump and Farage, but Corbyn comes close for me too. I don't like Gordon Bennett.

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Alyosha · 02/10/2015 13:27

Because steel is vital for buildings, trains, bridges, cars and every other fantastic product that makes people's lives better unlike Tony Blair's faith foundations and similar charidees some of which receive taxpayer funding to support their operations and the salaries of their Labour luvvies.

But what if there is no ongoing demand for those things? We haven't built a new railway in a long time - large infrastructure projects can't go on indefinitely.

But I bet you think it is a great idea to subsidise the banks and the hedge funds.

No.

Then we wouldn't have any railways or a strong farming sector. I prefer to cut taxpayer subsidies to Labour luvvies in charidees than to hard working farmers who provide healthy produce that people need.

Why wouldn't we have railways? They were originally private enterprise back in the 19th century, they weren't originally built by the state. I think the ideal rail system is a public one, but the huge amount of money it costs to renationalise them should not be a priority right now. We don't really have a strong farming sector...and a lot of the subsidies go to filthy rich people like the Duke of Gloucester

I don't understand this. Is this Gordon Bennett speak?

It means giving people money so they can live in dignity.

You thought wrong. I love Thatcher because she stood up for the middle class, the squeezed middle that the Labour luvvies always squeeze, the aspirational middle that Gordon Bennet and the gang always look down on.

You have clearly said before that you thought the unions were too strong in the 80s.

Instead of taxpayers giving QE and loans to banks, they will invest it in building schools, hospitals, roads, airports, infrastructure and houses so that people's lives are improved and so that businesses thrive by providing infrastructue that helps society. If I were in charge, I would slash the Labour luvvie charidees, the Crystal Methodist charidees, and the third sector and invest it in products, homes and infrastructure for people which would proide them with real jobs and employment as well.

HOw many new schools are needed/year? How many new roads are needed a year? How many new airports are needed every year? How will we sustain these jobs without selling the stuff to other countries? A population of 60million can't sustain enormous infrastructure spending indefinitely.

No, i agree with Corbyn that we should upscale our broadband across the entire nation to put us on the same footing as countries that do invest for their people so that our brilliant, creative, innovative people can become more productive and invent more things that benefit people across the world.

What??? How will high speed broadband help us to sell expensive steel to Germany?

No it won't. We don'y yet open up our NHS to foreign industries in a large way and even though we do let foreign indystries build and run our nuclear power plants, it doesn't have to be that way. We have the skills and ingenuity to do what they can do except that our people are denied the opportunity thanks to the City fat cats who don't invest in our people. I agree with Corbyn, let's have a National Investment Bank that invests our taxpayer money in our people and not in Labour luvvies in charidees and rich landowners who erect wind farms on their estates. Some sectors would be considered strategic and would be protected by the state and steel would be one, just as it is in Italy, who still manage to sell to the rest of Europe despite supporting national industries.

Well no, because we're not trying to sell NHS services to the rest of the world. I'm sure we have the skills to have lots of infrastructure, but how are we going to sustain this infrastructure and jobs if we can't sell it to anybody but our own population? Are you advocating a "Brave New World" type system with enforced consumption, planned obsolescence and mandatory waste?

Foreign investment locates here to use our talented, educated people resource and our state subsidised infrastructure and networks in order to sell to our relatively affluent society in order to make a profit. If it is only here to rip us off aided by Establishment City stooges, then we can do without it and invest our money in our industries instead of Labour luvvie charidees.

I agree with you to a certain extent. Some businesses are only located here because we allow foreign companies to own our railways, power stations and build our trains.

No we would support a core industry sufficient to our internal needs to develop our infrastructure to make our lives better even if that means cutting government subsidies to Labour luvvies.

That core industry would provide less employment than we currently have, given much of our jobs are predicated around providing services & products to those not in the UK.

So where will they get their life-saving pharmaceutical drugs and their pop music and their Prmeier League rights etc from?

How many people do you think the Premier league employs? and Britain is small fry for pharmaceuticals. Most innovation is US based, as that is where the profit is. I'm sure they'd cope.

Just as foreign companies should not be here to rip us off, we also would not rip anyone else off. This is not New Labour. We would create products and services that the world needs and we would sell them and we would also prevent our framers from going out of business because they provide valuable produce that our people need. It's common sense, not Gordon Bennett logic.

Interesting that you implicitly accept that the UK selling steel to India is a rip off. exactly where else is huge demand for steel & other heavy industry going to come from in the future, if not from countries where they can make it cheaper themselvses/ buy it cheaper from China?

Do you think Boris Johnson will do that, do you think the City will do that, do you think Tony Blair will do that or will it be Corbyn who is the only one who does that? And do you think Corbyn will get elected and if he doesn't then hiow will it happen? Do you think there will be a Big Brother dicatorship that forces it to happen and don't you realise who runs Big Brother and that they will never allow it to happen?

Yes, because the last Labour govt. increased taxes to 50p in the pound and kept inheritance tax thresholds the same for decades, essentially raising it.

So now you want to finally vote for Corbyn. I prefer Trump and Farage, but Corbyn comes close for me too. I don't like Gordon Bennett.

No. I hate Corbyn's foreign policy & love of foreign dictators. I also think he's a vote loser. New Labour understand that you get elected on the centre ground. You can play around with taxes after you get elected.

claig · 02/10/2015 14:15

'But what if there is no ongoing demand for those things? We haven't built a new railway in a long time - large infrastructure projects can't go on indefinitely.'

Well isn't it about time we built some more railways if only to save Gordon Bennett's "planet" because according to him "we have only 50 days left to save the planet". As long as there are people, there will be a need for infrastructure and for renewing crumbling infrastructure and improving the lives of people.

'Why wouldn't we have railways? They were originally private enterprise back in the 19th century, they weren't originally built by the state.'

Because we are subsidising them with our taxpayer money as well as handing it out willy-nilly to Labour luvvies and what are laughingly called Labour "bigwigs in charidees.

'They were originally private enterprise back in the 19th century, they weren't originally built by the state.'

But in case you hadn't noticed, we have improved them since and improved safety standards and we transport millions more people and they need cheaper fares when we have some of the most expensive fares in Europe as per usual in rip-off Britain where an Oxbridge elite class work in unison with fat cats to rip ordinary people off.

'We don't really have a strong farming sector...and a lot of the subsidies go to filthy rich people like the Duke of Gloucester'

Well then we need to create one and cut subsidies to landed gentry to erect wind farms on their land with our taxpayer money thanks to the munifence of the Baronesses and Gordon Bennett and his friends.

'I don't understand this. Is this Gordon Bennett speak?

It means giving people money so they can live in dignity.'

Do you think money grows on trees? Are you in agreement with Gordon Bennett and his friends? What we need is jobs, industry, infrastructure, investment, development, production, manufacturing not "training schemes in further education colleges" for steel workers who have been made redundant because the EU bankers say it is illegal to support our own workers and our own industries.

'You have clearly said before that you thought the unions were too strong in the 80s.'

And they were. But I love Thatcher because for the first time ever we had a Prime Minister who stood up for us, the aspirational middle class, and shared our values as opposed to the out of touch values of the liberal intelligentsia, the metropolitan elite, the Nooting Hill set, the luvvies, the PPEs, the modernisers and Gordon Bennett and his friends.

'How many new airports are needed every year? How will we sustain these jobs without selling the stuff to other countries?'

Because as Corbyn rightly says we will create better living standards, employment and prospects for our people so that they can achieve more and actualise themselves and create more productive products that eleveate the living standards of all the people instead of being crushed by austerity while the elite attend Piers Gaveston parties and burn £50 notes in front of homeless people while dismiising everyone in poverty as being genetically too stupid to be like them. Instead of QE for the bankers and their bonuses and champagne and offshore accounts, we will do a people's QE that will improve the infrastructure and living standards of the country with our own taxpayer money instead of wasting it willy-nilly on charidees staffed by Labour luvvies who are temporarily out of work because the public turfed them out in an election.

'What??? How will high speed broadband help us to sell expensive steel to Germany?'

We will create a better website for our steel, for a start. Broadband is to unleash the inventive capacities of our people in the new digital age and economy so that we can create new services, new software and new solutions that we can sell to the world.

'but how are we going to sustain this infrastructure and jobs if we can't sell it to anybody but our own population? '

Because better living standards help our people to work more productively, just like supplying a roof over people's heads gives them the stability to do more than just survive by sleeping on the streets.

'That core industry would provide less employment than we currently have, given much of our jobs are predicated around providing services & products to those not in the UK.'

Yes, but just like the legendary Donald Trump says, we will bring jobs back home to create products for our own people instead of importing them and importing steel from abroad which longterm puts our own people out of work. It's not New Labour, it's Donald Trump and Jeremy Corbyn, it's a new world. As I have said before "the people are back!" and Gordon Bennett is gone expcept to be rolled out in crises so that he strut up and down a stage lecturing the dwindling faithful Labour luvvies on how not to do it.

'How many people do you think the Premier league employs? '

I don't know but that is not what I am saying, I am saying we sell the TV rights to billions of people who watch it across the planet. Just like pop music or computer games or BBC programmes, it is one of our soft exports and something that we are good at.

'Most innovation is US based, as that is where the profit is'

Do the Chines make no profit, do the Germans make no profit? There is always profit if you make products that the world wants to buy. We have the skilled people to do it but we lack investment due to short-termism and waste of our public money to hand it over to unemployed Labour luvvies doing stints in charidees.

'Interesting that you implicitly accept that the UK selling steel to India is a rip off.'

No I don't. India can make it's own steel and we can make our own. If we can't make enough then we have to import it, but for Heaven's sake, let's make some.

'exactly where else is huge demand for steel & other heavy industry going to come from in the future, if not from countries where they can make it cheaper themselvses/ buy it cheaper from China?'

The purpose of our own industry is not to beat China in a price war, it is to support our own national needs for our own infrastructure and to keep our own workers employed. It is "sustainability", Gordon Bennett's favourite word but he only applies it to windmills and the "planet".

'Yes, because the last Labour govt. increased taxes to 50p in the pound'

Yes it increased it to 50p about 13 days before the election as an Oxbridge teenage stunt to try and put the Tories on the backfoot as the Labour luvvies saw power slipping from their greasy grasp. They are not serious and never were and now that they have someone serious - Corbyn - they are all trying to undermine him and stab him in the back.

'I hate Corbyn's foreign policy & love of foreign dictators. I also think he's a vote loser. New Labour understand that you get elected on the centre ground.'

OK. You keep voting for Liz Kendall then or even Cameron and Osborne against the Corbyn you dislike. See if they improve society for you.

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