with the terrible history Jews have, why is Israel behaving like this?

[ssd]

I would have thought they would be showing more compassion for a repressed minority but the opposite is happening

and Netanyahu saying they told the Palestinians to leave because they were going to be fired on...where the bloody hell would they go to?? IF THEY COULD GO AT ALL

I find it very hard watching the news and seeing the reports from Tel Aviv, with people crying over a dead soldier and apparently a right wing demonstration where they were chanting that Palestine has no schools or children now. And the news that as much as 90% of the Israeli population want to war to continue and be even fiercer. I have lost all sympathy for Israel. And I think I'm not the only one. Its as if the people in Gaza are shit on their shoes.

If Israel thought the world hated them before this they aren't interested in changing anyones minds, are they.

TooHotTooHandle Wed 30-Jul-14 09:45:12

"The Christian Europeans tried to exterminate them. Hammas has the same stated aims. Most of their neighbours see them as vermin too.

Funnily enough, they want to survive." (in reply to my op)

toohot, do you watch the news or read anything online?

who do you think is being exterminated here? who is desperately struggling for survival?

this is from the BBC:

"The number of civilians killed during Israel's Operation Protective Edge offensive has raised international concern and condemnation.

During the three weeks since air strikes against Hamas began, more than 1,330 have been killed in Gaza, with three killed in Israel."

can you answer me why you stated the above post?

why has this became about survival in Israel when the reality is the people of Gaza are being wiped out?

"If Israel thought the world hated them before this they aren't interested in changing anyone's minds, are they."

The loathsome Mark Regev is behaving as if he thinks he can get the "persuadables" to agree and sympathise with the actions of the State of Israel.

His lies and prevarication are disgusting.

the truth is, people like me who aren't very clued up on world politics and felt nothing at all for Israel now are beginning to hate them...and wont forget what they are doing.

ssd

it's no use asking toohot "can you answer me why you stated the above post?"

The people who are in favour of bombing and shelling Palestinians by the thousand are under no obligation to answer difficult questions.

I'm married to a man of Jewish descent who lost a grandparent in the camps. He's disgusted by what's going on. I had to bite my lip the other day when an otherwise lovely woman told the lady next to her in the waiting room at my DD's sports activity that all these deaths are actually Hamas' fault, as they deliberately bus women and children into the areas to be bombed and force them to be there...

I mean, if otherwise sane and rational people honestly believe this utter shit, there's no hope, is there?

I read this on FB the other day, it's a response to the Israeli 'warning' phone calls before they drop their bombs, and it really affected me:

Running Orders - Khalaf Tuffaha

They call us now.
Before they drop the bombs.
The phone rings
and someone who knows my first name
calls and says in perfect Arabic
“This is David.”
And in my stupor of sonic booms and glass shattering symphonies
still smashing around in my head
I think “Do I know any Davids in Gaza?”
They call us now to say
Run.
You have 58 seconds from the end of this message.
Your house is next.
They think of it as some kind of
war time courtesy.
It doesn’t matter that
there is nowhere to run to.
It means nothing that the borders are closed
and your papers are worthless
and mark you only for a life sentence
in this prison by the sea
and the alleyways are narrow
and there are more human lives
packed one against the other
more than any other place on earth
Just run.
We aren’t trying to kill you.
It doesn’t matter that
you can’t call us back to tell us
the people we claim to want aren’t in your house
that there’s no one here
except you and your children
who were cheering for Argentina
sharing the last loaf of bread for this week
counting candles left in case the power goes out.
It doesn’t matter that you have children.
You live in the wrong place
and now is your chance to run
to nowhere.
It doesn’t matter
that 58 seconds isn’t long enough
to find your wedding album
or your son’s favorite blanket
or your daughter’s almost completed college application
or your shoes
or to gather everyone in the house.
It doesn’t matter what you had planned.
It doesn’t matter who you are
Prove you’re human.
Prove you stand on two legs.
Run.

Ssd perhaps take this time then to read what exactly the Israeli people have and continue to have done to them at the hands of terrorists. It's not pleasant reading either....

The israeli people deserve not one ounce of consideration or sympathy any more. I have family in tel aviv. They have been on the beach, at work at parties this week.

They have sat silent while their government commits genocide. They have silently listened to cheering Israelis excited by bombs dropping on children sleeping. They have listened to chants ridiculing dead palestinian children.

They deserve the hatred of the world. Because they did nothing. They said nothing. They became the facilitators of this genocide.

58 seconds isn't long enough to run to a UN declared Place of Shelter, but that doesn't matter, because the Israeli Army bombs and shells them anyway.

I wonder if wannabestressfree has any opinion on terrorists who knowingly and deliberately ensure that the majority of their victims are noncombatants, and many of them are children. I don't know if she feels any particular repugnance for terrorists who bomb and shell hospitals and schools.

Whatever I say pigletjohn you will attempt to twist my words but I feel like I should say something or you will post continuously about the lack of an answer.

So to make it simple
Children dying- wrong
Non combants- wrong

But I don't view Israel as terrorists. I view Hamas as terrorists who use their people for their own ends.

Hope that is clear for you......

Hey, that's great, wannabestressfree, although I notice you avoid my actual questions. These people aren't passively "dying." They're "being killed"

"knowingly and deliberately ensure that the majority of their victims are noncombatants, and many of them are children" doesn't say it's wrong

"I don't know if she feels any particular repugnance for terrorists who bomb and shell hospitals and schools" doesn't say so

If you can show I have twisted your words and that you did say you condemn "knowingly and deliberately ensure" or "bomb and shell hospitals and schools" then I will happily retract.

I'd love to hear an Israeli apologists view on this israeli cheering and gloating. Anyone want to defend this?
m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/5630601

wannabestressfree, why do you make the distinction between the IDF and Hamas?

Is it because Israel is a state and Gaza (or Palestine) is prevented from forming one not?

Surely you don't think that a state can't commit acts of terrorism? (Iran? Syria?)

Surely you can see that Israel is behaving more like 'terrorists' at the moment? (e.g. warning then bombing is chilling to me, a Northern Irish person, as it is similar to the IRA tactic, although the IRA, of course, actually did give people time to get out, and as they weren't bombing everywhere there was somewhere to go).

Why is self-defence a sufficient argument to permit Israel to kill hundreds of civilians to get at possible suspected terrorists who they think might be somewhere around there maybe, but not sufficient to explain why Hamas might want to have some military presence and activity?

Oh right pigletjohn so I have to say EXACTLY what you want to the letter or it's not good enough for you?

I think I have made how I feel clear. What an arse you are. And a bully

not at all, wannabe.

I quite understand that you need to speak cautiously about people who knowingly and deliberately ensure that the majority of their victims are noncombatants, and many of them are children, and that you may be reluctant to express repugnance for people who bomb and shell hospitals and schools.

I did wonder if you might blame the victims, but you didn't, which is great.

wannabe did you watch any of the above videos featuring jews?

wannabe, its not me who needs to read up on this, its you.

and calling another poster an arse doesn't exactly mark you out as an intelligent conversationalist.

but hey ho

Maybe not but calling me every name under the sun is ok because I don't share your stance? I have listened, taken on board and looked at clips suggested. Have others tried to be subjective?

where were you called every name under the sun?

I'm late on this thread, so sorry. I disagree with both sides. I'm ex Muslim (Arab) and my husband is secular Jewish, we've had some comments recently because of that! I think Hamas is despicable- using human shields. And the Israeli government clearly don't want peace either- or at least compromise- and are also disgusting for killing so many innocent people. Hamas would do the same, if not worse (I believe they would do worse, tbh) but don't have the ability to and Israel's response is completely disproportionate. I can see why many Israelis are agreeing with this...they are surrounded by countries who want them dead, they come from a place where many of them did end up dead, they live in a world where anti semitism is constantly simmering under the surface. It doesn't, of course, make it right. Israel is a democracy, so Israelis are in more of a position to prevent what is happening, they are allowing genocide. DH has relatives in Israel who want to be able to move away but can't and they have protested against the policies in the past and will continue to be as vocal as is possible, a number of Israelis have, but they are still a minority and the country as a whole is mainly being populated by people who don't seem to care that they are responsible for killing innocent Palestinians.

Lovecat, that poem is very moving. Thank you for posting it. Have you seen Michael Rosen's poem protesting against Israel blocking a TV ad reading out the names of some of the dead Palestinian children?

Don't mention the children.
Don't name the dead children.
The people must not know the names
of the dead children.
The names of the children must be hidden.
The children must be nameless.
The children must leave this world...
having no names.
No one must know the names of
the dead children.
No one must say the names of the
dead children.
No one must even think that the children
have names.
People must understand that it would be dangerous
to know the names of the children.
The people must be protected from
knowing the names of the children.
The names of the children could spread
like wildfire.
The people would not be safe if they knew
the names of the children.
Don’t name the dead children.
Don’t remember the dead children.
Don’t think of the dead children.
Don’t say: ‘dead children’.

Reading aloud the names of the dead is a Jewish tradition.

If you go back through the threads it's there, well the ones that haven't been deleted.
I see you not disparaging about the bully comment though! Is that allowed to stand?
I have taken the clips and opposing statements into consideration. I think debate is healthy and some of it has been educating. I reserve the right not to agree with others particular stances though.

Vampiresquid

I'm glad you posted because there's something I wanted to ask.

I have heard the story from the loathsome Mark Regev and other Israeli sources that Palestinians use each other as "human shields."

Mark has explained that this means Israeli forces then kill the human shields (so it is clearly an ineffective tactic), bomb the hospital, or whatever, so they have no respect for these alleged human shields.

Is there any reliable independent to support the repeated allegation that Palestinians use each other as human shields? Is this any more or less reliable than the evidence that Israeli forces use Palestinians as human shields?