My feed
Premium

Please
or
to access all these features

MNHQ have commented on this thread

Politics

with the terrible history Jews have, why is Israel behaving like this?

999 replies

ssd · 20/07/2014 23:22

I would have thought they would be showing more compassion for a repressed minority but the opposite is happening

and Netanyahu saying they told the Palestinians to leave because they were going to be fired on...where the bloody hell would they go to?? IF THEY COULD GO AT ALL

OP posts:
Report
Laptopwieldingharpy · 02/08/2014 19:52

And when a palestinian soldier is kidnapped and rendered into a secret isolation cell? Is the International community going to ask for his immediate release?

Report
Laptopwieldingharpy · 02/08/2014 19:56

How about american and french citizens with double citizenship going out on a jolly to shoot lame ducks in the iccupied territories as IDF recruits? Are they not terrorist combatants?

Report
Comingfoccacia · 02/08/2014 20:09

There are 32 countries which also do not recognise the state of Israel, i wo der if they are seen as "terrorist" nations too. I have a wonderful little atlas from Emirates airline which says Palestine and no Israel.
Also, amongst the Arab diaspora the Palestinians are treated with great reverence. My dh never charges full price to his Palestinian clienrs.

Report
Laptopwieldingharpy · 02/08/2014 20:20

Well am sure the US is just short of declaring Chili, Argentina, bolivia, Brasil & Urugay as belligerant neighnours. Another great opportunity to flex some muscle.

Report
Laptopwieldingharpy · 02/08/2014 20:22

The 5 above gave recalled their ambassador to Israel. Argentina has defzilted on its debt payment pretty much the same day....

Report
Springheeled · 02/08/2014 22:28

Blimey laptop as if the US didn't do enough to fuck those places up in the 70s when the Chicago boys ran riot with their looting and pillaging of nationalised resources and backed murderers like Pinochet. So very, very scary...

Report
SamG76 · 03/08/2014 08:12

Coming focaccia - not sure what you count as the Arab diaspora, but in Arab States Palestinians are treated atrociously. The Syrians have been starving them in refugee camps, Jordanians and Lebanese massacred thousands in the 70s and still bar them from most skilled jobs. Kuwait expelled them for supporting saddam in 1991. Egyptians are furious about Hamas support for Morsi, and there's a huge anti-Palestine campaign in the media.

Palestinians in Israel are treated considerably better than in the Arab world, but of course that doesn't fit in with the "victims" narrative.....

Report
runes · 03/08/2014 08:29

sam Victims narrative???? What a fucking nasty sentiment. Not enough murdered innocents to be genuinely considered victims? All those dead children just playing the victim? But sure why should we care even the other arab nations hate the Palestinians. There are some frighteningly cold hearted people on these boards Angry

Report
halfdrunkcoffee · 03/08/2014 08:51

Runes, I think Sam meant that the Palestinians living within Israel itself (not Gaza/WB) have, on paper at least, full citizenship and more rights than they do in other Arab countries. The fate of Palestinians on other Arab countries doesn't seem to be talked about very much. This shouldn't give Israel an excuse to deny human rights or to indiscriminately kill civilians; nor should other countries be let off the hook because of Israel's behaviour.

Report
Laptopwieldingharpy · 03/08/2014 11:33

treated as full citizens? really?

What do you call racial profiling at that level in a "democracy"? Or am I missing something?

The fate of Palestinian refugees at the hands of neighbors is appalling but as far as I now, appart from the Assad regime, its still the Israeli army who incited a local (NON muslim militia) to commit the biggest massacre in Lebanon in 1982 and fueled the sectarian violence.

Report
halfdrunkcoffee · 03/08/2014 17:08

Laptop, I did write "on paper". I don't dispute that the Palestinian citizens of Israel face a great deal of racism, prejudice and discrimination. AFAIK they aren't barred from any profession as they are in Lebanon.

Report
SamG76 · 03/08/2014 21:55

Laptop - the Lebanese civil war started in 1976, and there were plenty of massacres before and after 1982. Particularly nasty one at Namur. And no one suggested that the Israelis incited it, rather that they they could have done more to stop it....

Report
Laptopwieldingharpy · 04/08/2014 10:30

It's just so scary to think about what plague will come after Hamas? A yet more radicalized hostage population and ISIS lurking to fill the vacuum.
What is Israel's game plan? How could this be a viable pathway?

Report
mathanxiety · 04/08/2014 23:57

I suspect the idea is to provide a demonstration of the fate of anyone who threatens Israel. There are already groups in Sinai and Syria, and now in Iraq (not to mention Hamas) whose raison d'etre is to wipe out Israel and Israelis. I don't think it's mere coincidence that any of this happened in the wake of ISIS sweeping into Iraq. And certainly Egypt has declared war on the Muslim Brotherhood and on all the terrorists in Sinai, and their friends, Hamas, and is busy destroying Hamas tunnels from the Egyptian side.

Report
Laptopwieldingharpy · 05/08/2014 12:54

"La politique de la terre brulee"

Report
Laptopwieldingharpy · 05/08/2014 12:57

Also know as scorched earth strategy from the war of the gauls to the Geneva convention.

Report
edamsavestheday · 05/08/2014 13:18

They banned a Palestinian Knesset member from the Knesset because of her pro-Palestinian opinions? That's outrageous. No-one has ever been banned from the House of Commons or Lords because of what they think or say. So much for freedom of speech in Israel!

Report
Laptopwieldingharpy · 05/08/2014 15:50

So mission scorched earth accomplished. The IDF has just tweeted all tunnels destroyed.
A new blocjade of the gettho can start and renewed hatred can rise back from the rubble.
Well done.
Thats all it was about as you say nathanxiety. The bully flexing his muscles. Pointlessly.

Report
Laptopwieldingharpy · 05/08/2014 15:55
Report
runes · 05/08/2014 16:18

Well done Egypt, they seem to have managed to destroy these 'terror' tunnels without killing any children. Maybe the Israelis could ask for some tips.

Report
SamG76 · 05/08/2014 16:39

runes - the Egyptians got rid of the tunnels quite easily because they weren't booby-trapped, and weren't under attack at them time from Hamas. The Egyptians have killed far more Muslim Brotherhood supporters than the Israelis over the last few years.

Report
mathanxiety · 05/08/2014 17:05

The Egyptian Army/ president Sisi has dedicated itself to routing the MB within Egypt using whatever means necessary including judicial. This is probably preparatory to tackling the various terror groups based in Sinai. Egypt does not want to see the Sinai based militants slipping out of reach back and forth from Sinai into Gaza, or turning Gaza missiles on Egyptian forces.

Report
unrealhousewife · 05/08/2014 17:52

So this is as much about Egypt as it is about Israel. The Palestinians have effectively been funneled out by Israel hoping Egypt could house them and take on Hamas?

This is making slightly more sense now.

Report
mathanxiety · 05/08/2014 20:58

An interesting article from al Arabiya News, April 2014, written by Ahmed al-Muslemany, former presidential spokesman and media advisor to then Egyptian Interim-President Adly Mansour.

The article is bluntly entitled 'It is time for Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood to separate'.

It takes the form of open letter to Khaleed Meshaal, chairman of Hamas Political Bureau.

A bald accusation in the first letter:

'You are the head of a movement which, as fate had it, is our neighbor and which turned out to be a bad neighbor so it abandoned the case of Jerusalem and took on the case of Egypt. Some say: “we have nothing to do with this. This is a baseless propaganda campaign.” And some say: “the current regime in Egypt is making wrong accusations against us and is avenging the Brotherhood via us.”

I tell you this, security forces in our country have documents which prove that members of your movement are involved in sabotaging acts in Egypt. They also confirm there’s cooperation between Hamas and “Salafist jihadists” which were yesterday’s enemies - cooperation for the sake of breaking the Egyptian control of Sinai.'

The second letter is a warning:

'..it’s time for your movement to conduct a bold intellectual review, even if this leads to the defection of some opportunistic people we both know. Hamas previously knew its size, role and aims and submitted to President Yasser Arafat, and its dignified sheikh, martyr, Ahmad Yassine worked in public and in secrecy with the Palestinian Liberation Organization to coordinate and organize work. Hamas was once aware that the battle was with Israel and not with Fatah or Cairo and that its loyalty is to establish a state and not support the guidance office. Now, Hamas seems to have lost its path and seems to have entered a phase of confusion.

The intellectual review which Hamas needs must include a decisive vision of the Palestinian cause...

...The review must include a decisive stance in favor of the June 30 revolution in Egypt.
[a reference to the ousting of Mursi and his Muslim Brotherhood government in summer 2013]
All confusion must be cleared and all Hamas members accused of supporting terrorism in Egypt must be handed over to be held accountable and punished. The review must also include complete separation from the Muslim Brotherhood and the international organization. Separation from the Brotherhood and being open to reconciliation with Fatah and Palestinian society, as well as putting your country’s cause above that of your allies’ interests, are the only means to restore the message lost with Sheikh Yassine’s absence. President Adly Mansour was frank and decisive when he said: “The Hamas Movement has committed many mistakes when it involved itself in Egyptian politics by supporting the Brotherhood. Clearing the air between Egypt and Hamas requires ending this and respecting Egyptian sovereignty.” [in Sinai]

Mr. Meshaal, you know that political Islam groups outside Palestine have always used the cause to serve their aims and those photos of al-Aqsa mosque used during their ceremonies only aim to support their image and strengthen their status.
[an accusation that Hamas has allowed Islamists to hijack it]

And you know that Muslim Brotherhood students have always burnt Israeli and American flags in the campus of Cairo University and Egyptian universities. And you also know that this never happened since the January 25 revolution which helped the political rise of the Brotherhood.
[the installation of MB/Mursi in power]
Perhaps you’re following up on the events of Egyptian universities and the Brotherhood’s attempt to establish a movement akin to the Taliban in Egypt. It’s certain you haven’t heard or seen the names and photos of “Palestine” or al-Aqsa mosque [in Jerusalem], in their political activity.
[In other words, Hamas is warned that once the MB - and by extension all other Islamists - has achieved its Egyptian goals Palestine can basically go and suck eggs]

Finally, I addressed you due to the amiability between us and with good intentions. I hope you can save Hamas from Hamas and that you can save Palestine from some of the Palestinians and that Hamas won’t be on the wrong side of history or stand against the army which fought the Mongols, the Crusaders and the Israelis.'

Hamas is warned that it is being judged by the company it keeps.
It is a warning that Egypt's Army does not intend to relinquish power to Islamists, and that it sees Islamists as The Enemy for the foreseeable (until they are crushed).
Hamas is invited to forget jihad.

Report
Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.