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with the terrible history Jews have, why is Israel behaving like this?

999 replies

ssd · 20/07/2014 23:22

I would have thought they would be showing more compassion for a repressed minority but the opposite is happening

and Netanyahu saying they told the Palestinians to leave because they were going to be fired on...where the bloody hell would they go to?? IF THEY COULD GO AT ALL

OP posts:
wannabestressfree · 29/07/2014 20:57

PigletJohn wasn't it you who followed someone to another thread unrelated to this issue, attempted to derail it and made unpleasant comments...........

Or have I got you wrong?

PigletJohn · 29/07/2014 21:05

what, you mean vile comments like "you dirty Hamas troll?"

no, that wasn't me.

ThunderbumsMum · 29/07/2014 21:46

Hasbara troll, as you well know. We can see through you, pj

PigletJohn · 29/07/2014 21:51

There is something wrong with you. Go to bed.

ThunderbumsMum · 29/07/2014 21:54

Your fallback of trying to patronise people when you have no rational argument is lame.

Pangurban · 29/07/2014 23:02

The 'We can see through you, PJ' is a bit sinister. Not exactly directed towards the discussion. How about playing the ball and not the person?

wannabestressfree · 29/07/2014 23:17

I wholeheartedly agree.

topbanana1 · 30/07/2014 09:31

I am astonished by the amount of naivety on this thread. I'd like to think it is naivety and not (as PigletJohn keeps harping on about) anti-Semitism.

It would be fantastic if Israel could just lay down all weapons and instantly Hamas would respond by doing the same and everyone would live happily ever after, both sides respecting the other, in peace, to discuss in a constructive fashion how to divide up a fairly small peace of land or share in peacefully. That would just be so great, wouldn't it?

But in the real world, we all know that every time Israel has agreed to and stuck to a ceasefire, Hamas has gone on firing rockets and mortars in breach of the ceasefire, in an attempt to kill innocent Israeli civilians - yes, babies and children. (That they've failed to kill as many innocent Israeli babies and children as they'd like certainly isn't from want of trying.) We have now seen that millions (billions?) of dollars of aid money to the Palestinians have gone on building tunnels to transport arms and terrorists directly into Israeli territory in order to kill innocent Israeli civilians (and I note that those who complained earlier on this thread that the Israeli blockade was leaving the Palestininans deprived of building materials have gone all quiet on this since the tunnels were discovered).

So demands for Israel to turn the other cheek have to be met with realism. I wonder how many of those demanding Israel take no action felt the same way after 9/11 or 7/7? 7/7 was just one attack on British territory but I know I felt absolutely terrified. And I know I wanted those responsible for it brought to justice. So if I was Israeli, I know that it would be my first priority that my government destroyed those tunnels and rocket-launching sites.

Having seen how this thread has gone so far, I know I'm now going to be personally attacked with wails of protest that I'm in favour of killing Palestinian children. I'm not and it really isn't an either-or situation - either you agree with killing Palestinian children or everything Israel does is wrong.

I happen to believe Israel has a right - a duty, in fact - to protect its own people. Like every other state. I'd be interested to hear from those opposed to everything Israel does how you would propose stopping Hamas from launching rockets at innocent Israeli citizens? And how you think those tunnels will get destroyed of the Israelis don't do it?

I'm interested to hear from those with peaceful solutions to the conflict - because ultimately, that is what we all want. (For the record, posts telling me I'm a troll/like killing babies will mark out the writer as a nutter whose views I shall henceforth ignore on all topics.)

So - wise (wo)men of MN - how can we resolve the conflict in a way that leaves both sides safe and secure?

PigletJohn · 30/07/2014 09:37

"demands for Israel to turn the other cheek"

I haven't seen them. Have you?

I have however seen demands for Israel to try an approach other than oppression and violence.

PigletJohn · 30/07/2014 09:42

I wonder which of these statements is true?

topbanana1 Wed 30-Jul-14 09:31:41
we all know that every time Israel has agreed to and stuck to a ceasefire, Hamas has gone on firing rockets and mortars in breach of the ceasefire, in an attempt to kill innocent Israeli civilians

AndHarry Tue 29-Jul-14 12:06:44
There were no rocket attacks from Gaza between 2012 and the present conflict. Despite this, 44 Palestinians were killed by Israeli security forces last year. Before the rocket attacks started again a few weeks ago Israel performed an air raid on Gaza

TooHotTooHandle · 30/07/2014 09:45

In answering the OPs question, exactly because of their history, I would have thought.

The Christian Europeans tried to exterminate them. Hammas has the same stated aims. Most of their neighbours see them as vermin too.

Funnily enough, they want to survive.

PigletJohn · 30/07/2014 09:53

toohot

You mean there is a repetitive, unending cycle of violence and oppression? The oppressed becomes the oppressor? So you mean that the Palestinians will be violent oppressors for the same reason?

Rhianna1980 · 30/07/2014 09:55

A very simple video that explains what's happening.

m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=y0yy-pzoFg0

Rhianna1980 · 30/07/2014 09:56

Oops
Here is the link again - hope the hyperlink works
m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=y0yy-pzoFg0

KateSMumsnet · 30/07/2014 12:19

Hi everyone,

The OP has asked for this thread to be moved out of chat so it doesn't disappear after 90 days, so we're going to move it now.

badtime · 30/07/2014 12:56

I haven't read the thread, but I am intrigued by people (like topbanana) who think that Israel have a right to defend themselves, but the Palestinians don't.

They don't say that; they point out that Hamas are sending rockets into Israel, and Israel are 'defending themselves'. They seem not to notice that Israel are invading Gaza, dropping enormous bombs, shooting people etc. and that surely that would mean that the people of Gaza (represented by Hamas) would have the right to defend themselves?

If it is the fact that the IDF is an official military organisation representing an actual country, this would just raise the question of why the Palestinians are not permitted to form a state, or have an army.

The double standards are astounding. It is as if only Israelis are real people, and Palestinians only exist in the context of the threat they pose to Israel.

Israeli lives and Palestinian lives have the same value. If you think any differently, you should be ashamed of yourself.

runes · 30/07/2014 14:47

Great post badtime. You will now of course be accused of anti semitism. That the 'human shield' myth and the disingenuous 'why don't you care about Syria' appears to be the only available responses to those who would defend the Israeli government.

runes · 30/07/2014 14:52

*that along with the 'human shield '

Laptopwieldingharpy · 30/07/2014 17:58

Moved where? In the news?

Laptopwieldingharpy · 30/07/2014 18:01

The double standards are astounding. It is as if only Israelis are real people, and Palestinians only exist in the context of the threat they pose to Israel

Exactly what i was thinking today...

littlecloud · 30/07/2014 20:48

Why aren't the media reporting about all the protests in favour of palestine in the news like the one in London with 100,000 people. The one in Ireland i've seen lots of similar large protests around the the world on my fb news stream but none in the actual reporting media.

littlecloud · 30/07/2014 20:52

Rhi- I watched that video when the conflict first started up again a few weeks ago and it's perfect outlines everything.

I think The whole world will turn on Israel. Jews and Israeli's are turning on the state. It is sickening what they are doing. sickening.

We live in country and often here helicopters and planes flying over late at night as we are near forces training basis.

I was thinking the other night hearing that sound in Gaza and the terror that must fill you as a mother as you clutch your children and pray.

wannabestressfree · 30/07/2014 22:52

Well said topbanana

PigletJohn · 30/07/2014 23:05

topbanana

you have no comment then?

"AndHarry Tue 29-Jul-14 12:06:44
There were no rocket attacks from Gaza between 2012 and the present conflict. Despite this, 44 Palestinians were killed by Israeli security forces last year. Before the rocket attacks started again a few weeks ago Israel performed an air raid on Gaza"

somewheresafe · 31/07/2014 09:43

And let's not forget the west bank. No tunnels here but arrests, restrictions, killings here too by Israel. Clearly it's not Hamas and tunnels israel want to obliterate. It's palestinians, wherever they are.

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