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Politics

with the terrible history Jews have, why is Israel behaving like this?

999 replies

ssd · 20/07/2014 23:22

I would have thought they would be showing more compassion for a repressed minority but the opposite is happening

and Netanyahu saying they told the Palestinians to leave because they were going to be fired on...where the bloody hell would they go to?? IF THEY COULD GO AT ALL

OP posts:
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noblegiraffe · 20/07/2014 23:57

We shoved the last few remaining Jews into a troublesome part of the Empire

Well, not really. It's not like people looked at a map and spotted a gap. The restoration of the state of Israel had to be in that region because of Jerusalem. And the restoration of the state of Israel is a massive Biblical prophecy that has waited millennia to be fulfilled. A lot of people out there genuinely believe that it's God's plan and that we are now living in the End Times because Israel has been restored.

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Alisvolatpropiis · 20/07/2014 23:58

To be clear -

I do not support the destruction Israel.

I do find the actions being taken at the moment appalling and do not support the Israeli government in taking them.

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hiddenhome · 21/07/2014 00:01

It's all very laudable believing you're doing God's will, but the people who set up the state of Israel were pretty bloody shortsighted at best and reckless at worst. Look how it's ended up Hmm

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ShineSmile · 21/07/2014 00:03

The reason is because Israel is an arrogant terrorist bully, who has terrorised even the world to such an extent that everyone is quiet about the atrocities it is committing. It thinks it can get away with terrorising in the most brutal form.

Defenders of Israel, in the gentlest possible way, go and find something else to do, no one believes a word you are saying.

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frankie5 · 21/07/2014 00:06

They are defending themselves against their neighbours who do not want Israel to exist. Far fewer Israelis than Gaza citizens have been killed. I am sure that if more Israelis had been killed, people would think differently.

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hiddenhome · 21/07/2014 00:07

Hamas are such fluffy bunnies aren't they? Hmm

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MyFairyKing · 21/07/2014 00:12

Shine who died and made you king on the world?!

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MyFairyKing · 21/07/2014 00:14

It's never going to be a productive discussion anyway when people cannot separate Judaism from Zionism.

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ShineSmile · 21/07/2014 00:14

What people fail to mention is that Israel, according to the UN, is illegally occupying Palestinian land. If Israel has a right to defend itself, the Palestinians (and Hamas) are going to say the same too.

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BunnyPotter · 21/07/2014 00:14

Who cares WHY they're behaving like this. They break law after international law and we're looking for justifications, explanations?

What on earth could make it ok?!

Hamas are a resistance organisation. Do we spend time wondering WHY Nazis did what they did? No, we condemn it. I'm not saying that the two are alike, although I know the link has been made, but when something awful is going on in the world, the luxury of analysing motives comes after stopping the use of experimental, banned, carcinogenic (DIME) weapons on children who are sheltering in their homes, because there's nowhere else to go.

"Why" is for later, "no" is for now.

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ShineSmile · 21/07/2014 00:15

Spot on Bunny!

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MrsTerryPratchett · 21/07/2014 00:16

Last time very few Jewish people fought back (excepting the Warsaw ghetto and similar), and 6 million of them died. Now, they fight back. It is not a defense of what is happening by VERY understandable.

I asked some Israelis once who I met travelling. One of them, who I had been getting on really well with talking about all other aspects of world politics, got serious and quite angry with me and said, "everyone just wants us to die or go away. Everyone hates us anyway." Really made me think.

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MrsTerryPratchett · 21/07/2014 00:18

Actually Bunny people have spent a lot of time and energy thinking about why the Nazis did what they did. Those who forget don't understand history are condemned to repeat it.

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HauntedNoddyCar · 21/07/2014 00:22

Mrs TP yes.

They do view this as defence.

The fear they have that spans millennia isn't dissipated by 65 years of Israel.

I am no fan of the Israeli govt but surely it isn't a mystery why they go on like this.

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babbas · 21/07/2014 00:23

Surviving a holocaust is no reason to inflict the same on another nation. Self defence, Hamas, human shields, tunnels. We've heard all the excuses. The truth is there on twitter and fb for the world to see. People killed whilst sitting under trees,, whilst playing on a beach, whilst running for their lives holding babies. It is beyond horrific.

They are arrogant enough to do this in full glare of the world's media and then play the victim card. The demonstrations around the world prove that people are outraged. This isn't about Jews vs Muslims. Many jews around the world deplore israels actions. Me included.

Occupation is illegal under international law. Resistance is not.

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MyFairyKing · 21/07/2014 00:30

While I may not agree with the actions of the Israeli government, it is plain bullshit and offensive to compare the current situation to the systematic murder of 6 million Jews.

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ShineSmile · 21/07/2014 00:33

'This time is different. I can't recall such overwhelming and general disgust with Israeli policy. Even senior US officials privately concur

This didn't begin in 1967 or even 1948. It began with a colonial project that had a profound and irresolvable contradiction at its heart

That a state would be constructed in a territory already inhabited, against the moral, political, cultural rights of its native inhabitants

Israel was never strong enough to destroy the indigenous, and does not have the courage to admit to the ultimate futility of its project

Netanyahu believes the status quo is sustainable – a Jewish state ruling a majority Palestinian population. The idea is absurd.'

(From @hsmoghul on twitter)

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BunnyPotter · 21/07/2014 00:39

Yes, they've spent a lot of time SINCE, but at the time, people weren't debating whether they were justified, the Allies took a stand.

I'm not suggesting that we could have WW3! Just using it to illustrate the retort that "actually lots of people have been thinking about why the Nazis did what they did" (on phone so paraphrasing).

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MyFairyKing · 21/07/2014 00:39

An Islamic commentator is not going to be biased at all, nooooo!

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BunnyPotter · 21/07/2014 00:46

Any agree with above: Jewish doesn't equal Israeli and Israeli doesn't equal Zionist.

It's crucial to understand that to get rid of the guilt associated with saying anything that's critical of Israel.

And of course, it's possible to be critical of policies and actions of a country, without by default supporting those who claim to want to wipe it off the map.

And those are Important distinctions: it's too easy to call someone who criticises Israel a Hamas/Iran-loving anti-Semitic (although I prefer the term anti-Jew, because Semites include Palestinians) to shut someone down and try to discredit them. It also stops a lot I people, in my experience, from speaking out, because they're worried of being called "anti-Semitic".

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BunnyPotter · 21/07/2014 00:48

Sorry for typos, on phone.

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Yruapita · 21/07/2014 01:01

It is also plain bullshit to call the genocide of 400 defenceless people in an open air prison, crammed into a tiny strip of land 'self-defence'

This Israeli parliamentarian is a delight isnt she - She delights in the genocide of Palestinians, mothers and children - or should that be little snakes.
Link:
www.independent.co.uk/voices/why-im-on-the-brink-of-burning-my-israeli-passport-9600165.html


Seems she's not alone. There is a whole new generation getting prepped to join the army who have also sone fairly unsavoury views. There seems to be massive scare mongering and hatred embedding going on amongst some sections of Israelis.

mondoweiss.net/2014/07/terrifying-tweets-israeli.html

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trufflesnout · 21/07/2014 01:02

It's more like Jewish doesn't equal Zionist and Israeli doesn't equal Jew, but yeah, I agree with that. And to be anti-semitic is to be anti-Jewish, despite the semite/Arab connection, that's been the accepted use since Germany adopted it as a more 'scientific' and therefore more acceptable term than 'anti-Jew'.

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ShineSmile · 21/07/2014 01:05

MyFairyKing, for you, here's from a non Muslim then:

@jonsnowC4: Were any other country on Earth doing what is being done in Gaza, there would be worldwide uproar

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Stratter5 · 21/07/2014 01:48

Because religion, not money, is the root of most evil.

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