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Politics

Why are ukip so bad?

166 replies

Jumblebee · 13/05/2014 19:23

Apologies for the thread title, it probably makes me seem very thick and uninformed (although I am!)

I have read a lot on mumsnet about ukip and the general consensus of them is that they're idiots and so are the people voting for them. From what I've read on google I've only found information about them wanting to abolish inheritance tax and national insurance, but of course many of the pages on the Internet have not detailed all their policies.

I'm afraid to say I have no clue about politics and have ashamedly never voted before. Everytime I see someone posting on Facebook I about how they support ukip my first thought is "silly", just from what I've read on mumsnet.

Could someone please list their policies for me? I have heard that they are for scrapping maternity leave and holiday pay but I've not read anything about this on google. Basically I'm just wanting to know why the major population of mumsnet hate ukip, so that I feel justified in my opinion of "silly" ukip supporters!

OP posts:
NeoFaust · 17/05/2014 00:08

UKIP folk love to talk like they're revolutionary. I think The Who nail it with their prophetic little ditty:

There's nothing in the streets
Looks any different to me
And the slogans are replaced, by-the-bye
And the parting on the left
Are now parting on the right
And the beards have all grown longer overnight

I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again
Don't get fooled again
No, no!

Meet the new boss
Same as the old boss

UKIP are just failed politicians trying a different tack - in peer all their big talk of change will melt away.

claig · 17/05/2014 00:09

'They'll be wanting you to pay to park your pink elephant next'

Don't give the chums any ideas. They haven't got any of their own. They employ spinners and think tanks to come up with ways to screw the people.

VeryStressedMum · 17/05/2014 00:11

The thing is, Farage will have to do better than 'slash the quangos we'll save billions'.
At least if he said what quangos he's planning to slash and exactly how much it will save, also what he plans to do with the money, then he might be more credible.

claig · 17/05/2014 00:14

'Do you honestly believe UKIP are going to give people the power?'

Yes, because they don't whip their councillors. They are ordinary people and they won't screw the people. I think it was Farage who said something like trying to control UKIP members is a bit like herding cats. They are libertarians, ordinary people, against all spin and for the people. That is why the spinners and the elite are in such a panic and tizzy. They know their game is up.

There'll be no chumlike "minimum alcohol pricing" when the people's party are in power, and there'll be no free drinks and free ride for the chums. That is what has got the chums fuming and biting their nails.

claig · 17/05/2014 00:16

"Farage will have to do better than 'slash the quangos we'll save billions'."

As far as I understand it, it is all being costed as we speak. And it is being done by ordinary people, not spinners and think tanks, so it will be to the benefit of the people and not the chums, their spinners and hangers-on.

VeryStressedMum · 17/05/2014 00:21

This is all very well of ukip actually won in 2015, but they won't. I don't think farage even thinks he will.

DioneTheDiabolist · 17/05/2014 00:22

I don't like UKIP because if their reliance and exploitation of In-group prejudice, rather than actually having a plan to make things better.

Realistically, if UKIP were committed to the UK's removal from Europe (which seems to be their touted raisin-d'aitre, they wouldn't bother their arses fighting in the EU elections. The only way to get the UK out would be national referendum, which they can only bring about once in power in Westminister.

However, they are saving their powder in order to bring about actual change. They are exploiting political disaffection and In-Group Prejudice to gain MEP seats. To what end?

So to me UKIP are a bunch of people I don't think I'd like, asking me to vote to give them a huge salary. They are of no benefit or consequence and are a waste of a vote.

There are better protest votes out there.

DioneTheDiabolist · 17/05/2014 00:25

Sorry for the typos. Should Preview before I press Send when DS is asleep and kicking on the sofa beside me.Blush

claig · 17/05/2014 00:25

VeryStressed, this is a revolution and it has only just begun. the public have ignored all the media puppets, all the spinners, all the great and the good and have stuck with the people's party through thick and thin and have been immune to the spin.

Even if UKIP don't topple the chums this election, they will end up holding the balance of power. the chums will have to start listening to the people for once. All the spin, all their plans will have to be dropped as the people demand their say. They know it's curtains, they'll no longer have it all their way.

claig · 17/05/2014 00:30

' they wouldn't bother their arses fighting in the EU elections'

As Natalie Bennett of the Greens said, our electoral system is broken. The people cannot get their voice heard because the chums and the Labour luvvies have a cosy two-party first past the post system. The EU elections are proportional and that is why the public is able to have its say and they are going to do it.

UKIP has been fighting for over 20 years, that is how long it has taken them, and now they are getting some success and the chums are panicking. Non-establishment, peoples' parties have to fight whatever elections they can in order to grow and pose a challenge to the chums and luvvies.

claig · 17/05/2014 00:33

'There are better protest votes out there.'

There aren't. this is what Peter Oborne said in the Telegraph.

"No political party in modern history – not even Neil Kinnock’s Labour in 1987 – has come under such sustained attack and misrepresentation. Mr Kinnock at least had The Guardian and the Daily Mirror; Mr Farage cannot boast a single national title, and several papers are running vendettas against him."

The chums, the spinners, the media puppets and luvvies are not messing about. This is the biggest challenge they have faced. This is a real protest and they are throwing the kitchen sink at the people in order to put the people back in their box.

VeryStressedMum · 17/05/2014 00:48

Well if ukip don't topple the chums this election and the chums start listening to the people and act accordingly, then the chums will become the people's party and there will be no need for the ukip revolution.

claig · 17/05/2014 00:53

We hope that will happen. But we know that many of the chums are really puppets. We know that the EU makes the laws. That is why the establishment is trying to stop UKIP , because UKIP wants the people's Parliament to make the laws, not the unelected unaccountable bureaucrats of Brussels and the bankers.

The reason all the media puppets are anti UKIP is because their masters have told them and the chums to put the squeeze on the people and throw the kitchen sink at the public in order to try and stop them voting for UKIP and ending the unaccounatable, undemocratic EU game.

claig · 17/05/2014 01:06

The reason the media puppets are going after teh "fruitcakes" of UKIP is because they have no other way of trying t stip UKIP.

The media puppets all watched Cleggy, one of the finest minds in the country - public school, Cambridge and no less an institution than the College of Europe - flounder as he tried to "make the case" for the EU.

He had all the finest Oxbridge minds and spinners prepping him for the debate with Farage. The establishment spared no expense. Farage, of the people's party, had no one to help him - just a "fruitcake" and a pint. But that was all he needed to wipe the floor with establishment Cleggy.

The media puppets were shocked that Cleggy was unable to make any impact at all. That is when their masters told them to try the only strategy they had left. they called it "find the fruitcakes". They searched for UKIP "fruitcakes" for weeks and couldn't find any however hard they tried. It was like looking for a needle in a haystack. Finally they struck gold and found a few. They gave them headline coverage and made them frontpage news. But the public ignored it. They understood the game.

Now we're in the last week before the vote. Kitchen sinks are being unbolted from kitchens and media luvvies are getting ready to throw the lot at the public in the final week. But it is unlikely to work. The public understand the chums and sneaks.

Spinflight · 17/05/2014 01:44

From the UKIP constitution...

Objectives:

2.3 The Party believes that the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (hereinafter “The United Kingdom”) should only be governed by her own citizens and that its governance shall at all times be conducted first and foremost in the interests of the United Kingdom and its peoples and that the only laws that should apply within the jurisdiction of the United Kingdom are those wholly made by the Parliament of the United Kingdom. To that end it shall be the policy of the Party that the United Kingdom shall cease to be a member of the European Union and shall not thereafter make any Treaty or join any international organisation which involves in any way the surrender of any part of the United Kingdom’s sovereignty. The Party further believes that the integrity of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (hereinafter “The United Kingdom”) should be maintained.

2.4 In pursuit of these objectives the Party will at all times adhere to the principle of full equality before the law. The Party shall conduct itself and its affairs in such a way that it does not discriminate against or in favour of any person on the grounds of their race, religion, ethnic origin, education, beliefs, sexual orientation, class, social status, sectarianism or any other basis prescribed by law. Further the Party shall at all times adhere to the principles of the rule of law, liberty, democracy and respect for the human rights and the essential, traditional freedoms of the people of the United Kingdom and those under the protection of the United Kingdom.

2.5 The Party is a democratic, libertarian Party and will espouse policies which:

• promote and encourage those who aspire to improve their personal situation and those who seek to be self-reliant, whilst providing protection for those genuinely in need;

• favour the ability of individuals to make decisions in respect of themselves;

• seek to diminish the role of the State;

• lower the burden of taxation on individuals and businesses;

• ensure proper control over the United Kingdom’s borders;

• strengthen and guarantee the essential, traditional freedoms and liberties of all people in the United Kingdom.

--

Note that all members sign up to the constitution; those who act in a way which does not accord with the above are swiftly disciplined or ejected from the party. The vast majority of the 35000+ members do so. Those who do not tend to be new arrivals from other political parties in my experience....

For instance the gay weather chappy had been a tory councilor for many years, had been saying the same things, had similar letters published in his local paper and no-one had batted an eyelid.

He joined UKIP and became front page news a few months later, whilst refusing requests to stop doing interviews. He therefore received the coverage he craved.

Meanwhile there are numerous liblabcon members and elected representatives who are ex National Front or BNP members ( both types are explicitly banned from UKIP membership) , paedophiles, thugs and thieves whose crimes go unnoticed by the mainstream press.

As an example 10 out of the 2300 UKIP local election candidates have been expelled from the party for various reasons, whilst a libdem candidate remains despite being prosecuted for assaulting a 7 year old child. Another resigned after sending explicitly racist emails and one of their councilors was convicted of a racially aggravated assault. Of their 56 MPs there is only 7 women and no ethnic minorities. Of those who have been elected as MPs a disturbingly high percentage have either sexual or paedophilic offences to their names in addition to the usual grubby expense and contempt scandals.

If I included labour and tory candidates I could fill pages of barely reported incidents, some of the more extreme are mentioned by Nigel in the link above.

If you want to know who UKIP are then talk to them face to face and make your own minds up.

JennyPiccolo · 17/05/2014 08:48

I love UKIP for driving up the Yes vote in Scotland.

JennyPiccolo · 17/05/2014 08:56

Wee point of info that folk seem confused about- the European Treaty of Human Rights predates the EU. We'd still be signed up to it even if we left. Also the Human Rights Act is a legal bill written and passed at Westminster. It's a totally separate issue from EU membership.

ttosca · 17/05/2014 10:10

Claig are you on glue? I'm sure you were all pro-Tory last time you were copying and pasting everywhere.

Claig has always been confused and incoherent. S/he supports the 'Great Bob Crow' and fawned over the death of Tony Benn, then he repeatedly spouts right-wing fantasies about the greatness of the fascist parties like UKIP (and before that, the Tories) and fascist-supporting newspapers like the Daily Mail.

The problem is that s/he is a right-wing populist, and is easy pray to populist rhetoric, no matter how dangerous.

VeryStressedMum · 17/05/2014 10:11

Isn't Cameron thinking about repealing the human rights act and bringing in a bill of rights? That's all they need to do, they won't 'unsign' the ECHR, so we'll just be back to where we were pre 2000.
I assume if ukip gain power they would have to hold a referendum about leaving the eu, or is he going to going to just withdraw? Because even if they do win there will likely be more people that didn't vote for them than did (fptp) so it's not a given that we'll withdraw from the eu. And anyway looks like there will be a referendum if the tories get back in.

ttosca · 17/05/2014 10:18

UKIP aren't a Libertarian party.

Libertarians don't persecute people based on colour, ethnicity, gender, or sexual orientation.

Libertarians do believe that every person should be treated equally under the law. This includes gay people getting married. This includes practising any religion and includes building places of worship (Mosques) anywhere they like

Libertarians don't believe in borders.

Libertarians do believe that people should have free movement across borders, to live and work as they please.

Libertarians don't prosecute people for political speech on the internet, as UKIP has brought in lawyers and the police to bully and censor speech against them:

www.scriptonitedaily.com/2014/05/13/ukip-brings-in-police-and-lawyers-to-censor-bloggers-its-on-farage-its-on/

Libertarians do believe in free speech, especially political free speech.

claig · 17/05/2014 10:21

I don't suppirt fascists and the Daily Mail, UKIP and the Tories are not fascists.

The Tories can be accused of being many things - "idiots" as Farage has referred to some of their members - but not of fascism.

UKIP is now Britain''s most popular political party and Farage is Britain's most popular politician and the Daily Mail in its online form is the world's most popular paper.

The reason is that they are both populist. The establishment and teh Socialist Workers Party don't like it, because they are elitist rather than populist.

We are very lucky to live in a country which has elections. That way the people can topple the elitists and elect populists who are in tune with the public. I'm sorry that the people don't support you, ttosca, and the Socialist Workers Party or Left Foot Backward, but that is called democracy, where the people rather than the elites decide who governs the country. No matter what the elite's media class throw at the people, the public will still elect politicians who listen to the people.

ttosca · 17/05/2014 10:22

UKIP Policies:

Furthermore, following that link, here are the UKIP policies which are 'in support of the little guy':

i0.wp.com/www.scriptonitedaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/A005-Copy2.jpg?zoom=1.5&resize=620%2C381

==========================

Proposed UKIP policies include:

  • Scrapping Paid maternity leave

  • Raising income tax for the poorest 88% of Britons

  • Scrapping holiday entitlement

  • Speeding up privitastion of the NHS

  • Cancelling all planned house building

  • Abandoning all action on climate change

  • Cancelling regulations to make banks safer

  • Abolishing laws to protect your human rights

  • Making it legal for a man to rape or assault his wife

  • Cutting education spending and buying 3 aircraft carriers instead.

============================

ttosca · 17/05/2014 10:25

Claig, everything you say is ignorant.

WidowWadman · 17/05/2014 10:26

The Daily Mail deliberately lie by omission in order to whip up xenophobia [[http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2082119-Dear-Daily-Mail-its-a-bit-more-complicated-than-that?]] and unfortunately they're good at it.

It's not about being "in tune" with the public but about influencing the public by scapegoating and othering groups of people.

claig · 17/05/2014 10:27

Where did you find these "policies"?
Are they the ones that Farage referred to as "drivel", penned by an "idiot" who was a Conservative and is now back in the Conservative Party where he fits in well.