Why are ukip so bad?

[Jumblebee]

Apologies for the thread title, it probably makes me seem very thick and uninformed (although I am!)

I have read a lot on mumsnet about ukip and the general consensus of them is that they're idiots and so are the people voting for them. From what I've read on google I've only found information about them wanting to abolish inheritance tax and national insurance, but of course many of the pages on the Internet have not detailed all their policies.

I'm afraid to say I have no clue about politics and have ashamedly never voted before. Everytime I see someone posting on Facebook I about how they support ukip my first thought is "silly", just from what I've read on mumsnet.

Could someone please list their policies for me? I have heard that they are for scrapping maternity leave and holiday pay but I've not read anything about this on google. Basically I'm just wanting to know why the major population of mumsnet hate ukip, so that I feel justified in my opinion of "silly" ukip supporters!

"Claig, everything you say is ignorant."

This is the elitist attitude of the spinners. Gordon Brown referred to a good lifelong Labour supporter, Mrs Duffy, as a "bigoted woman".

the public have got wise to what some of this elite think of us. They heard how some Tory allegedly described hardworking Tory constituency workers and members as "swivel-eyed loons". The public are patient, but they are not stupid. They won't put up with being spun, ripped off and insulted forever. In the end, they will vote for people who represent them, not people who despise them.

"It's not about being "in tune" with the public but about influencing the public by scapegoating and othering groups of people."

Don't have such a low opinion and lack of respect for the public. That is what the spinners do. If "scaremongering" influenced the people, then the people would all believe in the spinners' tale of "global warming" and an impending "climate catastrophe". But they don't, because spin no longer works and the spinners don't like it.

UKIP are in a habit of hiding and obscuring their policies when put under the spotlight, which is precisely why we need to keep shining the spotlight on them.

Here is an example from UKIPs 'small and medium business spokesman':

stilllaughingattheukip.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/5qtxqe1.png

Have a look at the kinds of policies UKIP really support, and the kinds of policies UKIP want the public to know that they support.

claig - so spin doesn't work? What do you have to say about the lies of omission I reference then? Are these lies not spin designed to whip up hate?

That you and others don't believe in man-made global warming shows more that you prefer to believe in a particular spin, rather than your claimed ability to see through this.

This is the elitist attitude of the spinners. Gordon Brown referred to a good lifelong Labour supporter, Mrs Duffy, as a "bigoted woman".

Do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound calling anti-fascists elitists?

If scaremongering worked, then the people would all embrace wind turbines, and like the "Conservative" Cameron would install "rooftop wind turbines" on their houses. But they don't, because they don't believe it, and all the interviews and photo-ops with Cameron and all his snaps with huskies can't convince them. That is what has riled the spinners - the public are no longer falling for their spin, they are losing their grip and are no longer sure to win.

great question evading here, claig.

'claig - so spin doesn't work?'

Absolutely not. Look what happened to New Labour. they ruined their whole reputation because they allowed Oxbridge "intellectuals" to spin out of control and wreck the credibility of a proud and honourable political party.

The reason that Farage is so popular is because he is the antithesis of spin. He is everything the frauds are not. As Peter Oborne rightly said

"In an era that has been stripped of familiar signposts, he might have walked straight off the set of an Ealing comedy. Dickens would have loved him. There has been no Axelrod figure lurking behind Mr Farage, trying to make him say the right things or wear the right clothes. He has advanced to his position of unprecedented public influence on his own terms. Voters sense this and respect it."

I am not saying that the Daily Mail doesn't spin. Of course it does. It is desperately trying to help the Conservative chums by smearing UKIP. But the people aren't so stupid. Just read the Daily Mail comments section, where poster after poster laughs at the Daily Mail's attempts to save the chums.

You are not taken in by the Daily Mail and nor are loyal Daily Mail readers. I read the Daily Mail, not because I am stupid enough to believe it all, but only because it is the best we have currently got.

Claig! Are you saying that people don't believe in global warming? They do! Tons of them, practically everyone I know does including dh. I thought that people were sensible until recently, but it turns out that quite a lot of dh's friends/colleagues read the DM and believe every bloody word

It's like watching the Comic Strip Five Go Mad in Dorset

blah blah chums blah blah spin blah blah luvvies blah blah atom bomb

If the policies listed above are not the actual policies, then what are their policies? Or are we not allowed to view them in case people are put off when they see what they are?

I think it's worrying that a lot of people will vote UKIP on the back of immigration scaremongering without actually realising what they are voting for in entirety

If the great and the good, the wise and the wonderful, the best and teh brightest such as the great Labour leader Gordon Bennett, say things like "we have only 50 days left to save the planet", then obviously some of the public will believe it, because they actually trust the great leader and admire his honesty, integrity and sagacity. But the majority don't believe it anymore.

Alll of the establishment's spin is failing, everything they are throwing at the public is sinking. That is why UKIP is rising. UKIP represents the opposite of spin and that is why Cleggy and all the rest don't know how to stop UKIP.

"I think it's worrying that a lot of people will vote UKIP on the back of immigration scaremongering"

If you think this is about immigration, then you do not understand what is really happening.

This is the public in unison rejecting spin. This is a vote against the spinners, the rippers off, the nanny state ninnies who look down on ordinary people and believe that they can lie through their teeth and still get the public to vote them in, applaud them and believe them.

This is not about one issue, This is about everything and that is why the spinners don't know how to counter it. They have spun and lied for years, and the people suffered it silently but have now had enough, and now the spinners can't rein the public back in anymore.

Miliband understands what this is really all about. This is about who is on the side of the people.

Miliband wants to convince us that Labour is, but it won't work, because we all know they aren't. And the chums aren't either. So the people have nowhere else to go but UKIP. They don't care about their "policies", they only care that they are different to the Labour luvvies and Conservative chums. And the reason for that is that the people have had enough - enough of spin, lies, expense scandals, and health scandals and absolutely everything. The people want change. They don't believe the spinners can deliver it, they think all they will do is carry on spinning.

You only have to watch Channel 4 News, where even if all their highly paid spinners try to do UKIP down, it doesn't work.

They show pictures of Farage walking around constituencies and young people rush to take selfies with him or old ladies shake his hand and asking him with concern and respect for his bon-viveur spirit if "he has had a drink yet" at 9 am in the morning.

Farage is a star and people want to shake his hand because they see him as "one of us" and not "one of them", "one of the chums" or "one of the luvvies".

Farage and UKIP are popular because unlike Labour, people think they are "on our side".

It's inexplicable to me how you can vote for a party without looking at its policies and see whether you agree with them. A party which doesn't want to even discuss policies and how it plans to achieve them and disowns any previously stated policy as soon as it comes under scrutiny just doesn't make sense.

If people are sick of parties going back on their word, UKIP should be the least attractive of them all. And why you'd vote someone to become MEP for a handsome salary when they don't even intend to do the job they're being paid for, doesn't make sense.

If you don't want to look at their policies, look at their voting record.

''If you think this is about immigration, then you do not understand what is really happening''

You seem to have misunderstood my point, I don't think this is about immigration

But as I said, I fear that many people will vote UKIP purely on the back of immigration without realising that they are voting for i.e. reduction in maternity pay, increasing income tax, abolishing laws to protect your human right, legalising rape within marriage etc etc

And before you say 'oh but these aren't UKIP policies' - well please do point me in the direction of their actual policies then

And no, I absolutely would NOT shake Farage's hand...my son is half British, no way will I ever have anything but contempt for someone who would willingly treat him like some kind of 2nd class citizen

People don't care about the EU Parliament. Hardly anyone knows who their MEP is, and that is even true of all the political pundits and journalists on the BBC Daily Politics Show. That shows what a farce and how undemocratic and unrepresentative the EU actually is. That is why people don't care if UKIP have MEPs who earn the same as the chums' MEPs.

People will scrutinise UKIP's policies when they are released later on. but for the EU election, the public does not care, because unlike Cleggy and the Cambridge crew, most of the public doesn't know who their MEP is and doesn't care.

Claig, a lot of what you say happens when Farage wanders about would happen to absolutely anyone whose face is vaguely recognisable be it the crappiest most loathed winner of Big Brother or any minor celeb who wandered about without shed loads of security. I suspect a lot of people are just saying "ooh there's some bloke off the telly going down X road, let's get selfies....".

UKIP want to scrap maternity pay. Says it all really

Backonlybriefly …. Re the following clearly uninformed points you made;
"Notice that when UKIP say cut immigration they are racist, but when the Tories promise the same thing it is a wise and thoughtful decision.”

“When UKIP say they want to leave the EU they are mad/stupid, but when the Tories promise a referendum on leaving it is a good thing.”

Ukip and the BNP grew in populist stature thanks to Labour’s immigration policy in the 2000’s, where they wanted more “diversity”, and seems to have hid their policy to give permission for nearly twice as many NON EU citizens, at a time when they had no idea how many EU citizens through ‘open borders’ would come here.
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/6418456/Labour-wanted-mass-immigration-to-make-UK-more-multicultural-says-former-adviser.html

So in answer to your FIRST question, the Conservatives CAN AND DO (thoughtfully) control the NON EU numbers, as per their record in the decade to 1997 and from 2010 and other controls on EU citizens trying to come here without work etc – whereas Ukip are not accepting the current EU rules enshrined into British law when Brown signed the Lisbon Treaty and are stirring up racial hatred for votes with policies they 100% cannot deliver.

Next, if Labour/Brown would have given ‘the people’ a referendum and/or took the time TO EXPLAIN the pros/cons of the EU, we would definitively KNOW if Farage is mad or stupid, whereas if a Conservative majority in 2015 allows Cameron to guarantee a 2017 referendum – assuming the stay in/come out debate beforehand will blow away the B.S. from both sides – a referendum is “a good thing” as a then INFORMED electorate can vote on the issue.

What we don’t want is another Labour administration (with or without the Lib Dems) NOT offering the people an informed choice, “diversifying” us further - and no doubt in my mind then looking to take away the UK’s designation as ‘Christian’ because they think we don’t care and it’s good for votes, now and especially in the future as our ethnic population increases – which will once again recruit more Ukip and other nationalist voters.

Someone up thread said UKIP are the acceptable face of racism. There is no acceptable face of racism in a civilised society. Keep the UKIP scum out of any position of power.

Jux, you are right to some extent. But the key thing is that it would not happen to another politician, and that is very significant.

Joey Essex or all these slebs are not really important, but politicians are actually important because they represent the people and can change their lives. That is why elections are so important and that is why Farage is so popular, because people are desperate for change.

They want the country fixed, they want people cared for in hospitals and care homes, they want an end to cronies siphoning off public money in contracts and scamming the public and benefitting from old boy connections to chums or luvvies. They want an end to the waste of public taxes on subsidies for aristocrats to install "rooftop wind turbines" or to £4m of public money being spent on the Ethiopian Spice Girls instead of dredging rivers in the Somerset Downs that would have protected the homes and businesses of hardworking people. They want someone who puts the people first and the chums and luvvies second.

That is why Farage is popular because people are investing their hopes in him, they want him to fix the country, cut out the spin and sack the luvvies with their snouts in the trough.

Gary Barlow is a prime example. Cameron seems to back him. But the public don't. The public has had enough of chums who put the people and the country second.

Cameron backed Maria Miller too. Can't he get it? Doesn't he understand or doesn't he care? The people want him to be "on our side", to put the people first.