Why are ukip so bad?

[Jumblebee]

Apologies for the thread title, it probably makes me seem very thick and uninformed (although I am!)

I have read a lot on mumsnet about ukip and the general consensus of them is that they're idiots and so are the people voting for them. From what I've read on google I've only found information about them wanting to abolish inheritance tax and national insurance, but of course many of the pages on the Internet have not detailed all their policies.

I'm afraid to say I have no clue about politics and have ashamedly never voted before. Everytime I see someone posting on Facebook I about how they support ukip my first thought is "silly", just from what I've read on mumsnet.

Could someone please list their policies for me? I have heard that they are for scrapping maternity leave and holiday pay but I've not read anything about this on google. Basically I'm just wanting to know why the major population of mumsnet hate ukip, so that I feel justified in my opinion of "silly" ukip supporters!

I didn't say they have a "roughly even distribution", I said they have people of all types.

Oh right. So even though UKIP supporters are predominantly older white males and have almost no support from people of colour, you say they 'have people of all types'.

That's not disingenuous in the least bit.

UKIP - The Party of The People*

*So long as you're male, white, Christian, heterosexual, fully-abled, racist and stupid.

The mood of the electorate at the moment is exactly like it was when Margaret Thatcher was swept to power.

I remember the 1970s very well as a child. It was awful. I hated it. The strikes, the blackouts, the sense that the UK was going no where. I remember LibLab Pact no different to the LibCon coalition now.

The electorate wanted change back then. Thatcher was different. Not one of the usual Tory or Labour politicians that no one could tell apart. Heath and Wilson were peas in the same pod.

Farage is a 'Thatcher' figure for the electorate. I voted for Margaret Thatcher then and I will vote for Nigel Farage now.

Thatcher vs Farage hmmm.

One small difference, Thatcher was a 'detail' politician, had firm major policies and 'wasn't for turning' - Farage disowned his own 2010 General election manifesto blaming what he signed off on someone else, hasn't got a clue what Ukip policies are on 'big picture' local issues (when asked on the Daily Politics earlier in the week) and just spouts populist polices - hardly the makings of a State Funeral..

Could a Green, labour or tory poster please provide me with a link to their 2015 manifesto please?

I do wonder at the sanity of anyone claiming that a mainstream political party in the UK is in favour of legalising rape.... Or any of the rest for that matter.

Silly Spinny .... no party has released their 2015 General Election Manifesto yet ... let alone reject the whole honking thing wholesale and try and wipe it off the face of the earth, like Ukip tried on their 2010 general election manifesto.

news.sky.com/story/1200525/nigel-farage-disowns-ukip-manifesto-as-drivel
“UKIP leader Nigel Farage has disowned the party's entire general election manifesto - which he helped launch - branding it "drivel”.”

www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-11-15/u-k-parties-prepare-for-2015-by-erasing-web-histories.html

“UKIP spokesman Michael Heaver confirmed that the party’s 2010 election manifesto had been removed. While the party now opposes the planned high-speed north-south rail line, the 2010 document advocated building three new routes.

“We’re in the process of updating everything,” Heaver said by telephone. “We’re going through a policy review.”

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8617187.stm

For anyone wishing to see Ukip’s 2010 General Election manifesto, above is the BBC’s summary.

UKIP's voting record in the EU is pretty poor - not just their attendance record.

Not a single UKIP MEP voted for increasing statutory maternity leave from 14 to 20 weeks across the EU.
They've never made a single vote in favour of any climate or energy change policies (and yes, climate change is the single most important issue facing our children!!!).
They voted against a clampdown in the Ivory trade :(

There are some sites out there which can help to highlight general party policies and help you to form a judgement about who to vote for, who you actually support. Hey it might be UKIP, but at least you can decide based on what you actually want.
There's Vote for Policies: voteforpolicies.org.uk/survey/select
There is another better one too, can't remember the link though.

rsk2014,

UKIP's policy is to oppose any motion that seeks to increase EU powers. Please don't assume that we would vote against such things in our own parliament.

MEPs are paid about £300 a day merely for turning up, hence high attendance ( there are UKIP MEPs who concern themselves primarily with agriculture who have excellent attendance records ) is not necessarily a sign of diligence. That arch europhile Nick Clegg had a poorer attendence record than most UKIP MEPs...

Regardless which party you vote for MEPs are expensive creatures, costing the taxpayer about £1.8 million per year. Labour, Lib and tory MEPs ( who have cost you almost £600 million between them) merely rubber stamp everything that crosses their desks ( they have never prevented any EU legislation, not even the formation of the EU army). UKIP MEPs oppose and fight not just for the UK but for the downtrodden throughout the continent.

UKIP MEPs only compose 12% of the UK total, but make up 100% of the firepower.

Indeed Nigel is more popular in Greece than their PM and we have many members and even donors from Greece in our overseas branch.

I could go to Wilkos and buy a rubber stamp for a fiver without having to send it on fact finding trips in 5* hotels all over the world. Would do the same job as the dozens of pointless liblabcon charlatans.

Some perspective....

nopenothope.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/the-latest-digest-of-crimes-etc-by.html?spref=fb

"Tories - 2 on firearms offences, 1 for falsely claiming to be a barrister, 1 drink driving ban, 1 disqualified for benefits fraud, 1 cronyism over pub license breach, 1 accused of sexist remarks

Labour - 1 banned from office for bullying, 1 cronyism delaying prosecution for benefits fraud, 1 electoral fraud allegation, 5 resignations over racism claims, 2 resignations over homophobia claims, 1 facing investigation into homophobic remarks

Lib Dem - 2 on benefits fraud charges"

--

2 days....

Yep, just two days worth of liblabcon scumbaggery which I think clearly crystallises the media's obsession with UKIP and it's blind eye to the old, failed, parties.

Incidentally this doesn't include the UAF and HnH which are funded by the old, failed, parties. Certainly you can add the rape of a four year old child ( conviction thereof not mere allegation) by a senior figure.

Frankly it is as though the crazies have been given a free pass - so long as they scream abuse at UKIP members. Likely enough that some people on this forum are involved....

Needless to say, if anything approaching a similar level of debauchery were committed by UKIP supporters then I think we can safely assume that many of the above offences would be front page news.

With that I will leave you to your discussion....

well, that looks like an unimpeachable source. Absolutely no swivel-eyed loons involved in that website whatsoever .

www.guardian-series.co.uk/news/wfnews/11217704.Gun_offence_Tory_to_be_sentenced_today/

www.bristolpost.co.uk/Conservative-councillor-Tim-Marter-resigns-ban/story-21098133-detail/story.html

www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/flintshire-councillor-banned-bullying-disqualification-7127671

www.yourthurrock.com/2014/05/16/councillors-shambolic-case-adjourned-until-october/

www.yourlocalguardian.co.uk/news/local/kingstonnews/11216830.Kingston_councillor_charged_with_benefit_fraud_will_face_polls_before_court/

www.964eagle.co.uk/news/local-news/1285174/exclusive-guildford-councillor-speaks-to-eagle-following-her-arrest/

www.middevongazette.co.uk/Fraudster-councillor-Tiverton-forced-committees/story-21101893-detail/story.html

www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/Conservative-councillor-handed-ban-drink-driving/story-21093349-detail/story.html

www.sloughobserver.co.uk/news/slough/articles/2014/05/15/100278-police-launch-election-fraud-probe-after-allegations-a-slough-labour-candidate-intimidated-a-resident-into-filling-out-her-postal-vote-/

www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/conservative-candidate-guilty-of-cheating-london-council-in-30000-benefits-scam-9375335.html

www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/five-middlesbrough-councillors-resign-labour-7080454

www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/11207456.Bexley_Council_accused_of__whitewash__on_investigation_into_strippers_at_Crayford_pub/?ref=var_0

www.thesouthernreporter.co.uk/news/local-headlines/tory-in-indy-sexist-claim-1-3411729#.U3R80R4ieDw.twitter

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/liverpool-liberal-councillor-steve-radford-7122909

www.thanetgazette.co.uk/Labour-leader-hits-deputy-leader-resigns/story-21093241-detail/story.html

spin - you say you have Greek donors - I thought donations from non UK donors are not permitted? Might have misunderstood the electoral commission a rules?

Spinfight-

HopeNotHate is not a Labour organisation. It doesn't matter what Farage says.

"UKIP's policy is to oppose any motion that seeks to increase EU powers. Please don't assume that we would vote against such things in our own parliament."

That has to be just about the worst excuse. What's wrong with abstention? Why on earth would you vote against something so undeniably good for fellow mothers, sisters, wives?

To me it just seems like more of UKIPs anti-women stance. Against maternity leave, even Farage himself claiming women are "worth less" to employees. Abhorrent. UKIP so often appear to be dragging civilisation backwards.

Simon Dancxuk of Labour gets it. He seems like a good MP. It seems he is also a first-time MP. It is also interesting that he is writing in the people's paper.

"UKIP has proved that there’s a rich seam of despairing voters out there. They’ve been ignored for far too long and Labour has to show it’s willing to listen.

It’s daft to characterise UKIP voters as disaffected loons, because many are simply working-class people tired of the three main parties. A lot are Labour people and we need to work hard to get them back.

There are still many in the party who think we have a right to govern. Some have mostly known Labour victories, which makes it easy for them to dismiss the 2010 Election as an aberration. New MPs such as myself know all too well there is no easy way back into power.

The latest polls are a wake-up call. But we should be under no illusion. Time is running out and if we don’t have a strong showing in the European and local elections this week then things will need to change.

Labour doesn’t need to panic – yet. But more of the same won’t cut it. Earning the trust of the public is hard and there are no short cuts."

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2631478/Mantra-misery-fools-policy-Labour-wont-win-election-fighting-defeatist-says-MP-SIMON-DANCZUK.html

So Spin what do you think of Demitri Marchesini?

Peter Hitchens article on the best reason to vote UKIP. I had no idea about what he is saying. I was having my doubts about voting UKIP, but Hitchens has convinced me.

If all the progressives like the Guardian, the BBC and the Conservative Party are agin UKIP, then it's no wonder that UKIP are the pollsters' top tip.

"Here is the best reason for voting UKIP

I don't like UKIP or its leader, Nigel Farage. They are the Dad’s Army of British politics, doddery, farcical and very unclear about what they are actually for.

But they have Captain Mainwaring’s virtues too. They are absolutely certain about what they are against, in this case an aloof political establishment that despises the concerns of normal human beings.

They are also indomitable when under attack. And they need to be. I have taken a close interest in British politics since I was a schoolboy, and I have never seen a more disgraceful alliance between politicians and their media toadies than the one that has been secretly made to do down UKIP.

On one day last week, almost every unpopular newspaper carried a cartoon portraying Nigel Farage as ugly, stupid or embattled, or all three.

Last Wednesday, the insider magazine Private Eye also claimed that the Leftist daily The Guardian had made a secret deal with the Tory Party, which claims to be conservative .

The Tories, it was alleged, had promised the favourite newspaper of the liberal elite a steady supply of damaging stories about UKIP candidates saying daft things (Tories, of course, never say daft things). In return, the newspaper had promised to avoid identifying the source.

Such stories are immediately picked up by BBC radio and TV news channels, which view The Guardian as sacred text. Asked about the allegation, The Guardian drew itself up to its full height and snapped: ‘The Guardian does not disclose its sources.’ (A certain Sarah Tisdall, who went to prison 30 years ago after The Guardian handed over documents that disclosed her as its source, might disagree.)

Well, there you have it. The Tory Party and The Guardian (and the BBC) are all united against UKIP. That would seem the best possible reason to vote UKIP. It also tells you who and what the Conservative Party really is

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2631545/PETER-HITCHENS-Fair-taxes-Theyre-likely-Osborne-joining-Take-That.html

Well, there you have it. The Tory Party and The Guardian (and the BBC) are all united against UKIP. That would seem the best possible reason to vote UKIP

So the best reason to vote UKIP is because the Tory Party, the Guardian and the BBC are all against them?

I'll be voting based on policy, thanks all the same

I just feel that if the EU unravels, what we will have instead will be a constantly shifting tangle of alliances, secret treaties and deals with a high risk that European countries will fall into a war, as happened in 1914. I agree that sounds a lot like the European Union anyway but at least there is some governance structure, some accountability, some records.

I don't think it is any accident that the rise of UKIP is happening just as WWII is falling out of living memory.

MrJolly - I love your username. I loved the film. I haven't seen it in years.

So you'll be voting for the "all in it together" lot?

So far, the polls are predicting a landslide for the other side, the common sense party of change

Hitchens said
"I have never seen a more disgraceful alliance between politicians and their media toadies than the one that has been secretly made to do down UKIP."
but I think he should maybe have added the Socialist Workers' Party too.

It is the people vs the entire establishment. Hitchens calls them "media toadies".

We will have to wait for Sunday to see who wins - the people or the puppets.

Well, if the people represent the puppets, they will also have to look after their interests.

It is extremely obvious that UKIP are just like any other political party, in that they seek election to local authorities, Westminster and Brussels, and are funded obscurely by high net worth individuals. I will be interested to see where that money goes if UKIP actually pass some of their policies and said high net worth individuals find that their interests are not as separate from other parts of the world as they thought. Of course, rich people can always emigrate, unlike 'the people', who will no longer be able to up sticks and go to another European country without anyone interfering with their desire to do so.

joanofarchitrave, the real danger of war is between the US/EU and Russia.
Farage, the statesman, said that the EU was wrong to encourage the Western Ukrainians and he said that "the EU has blood on its hands over Ukraine"

When countries lose their sovereignty, they become puppets, and puppets' strings are pulled and all the puppets are forced to carry out the same actions and the same policies and the same sanctions and end up being "all in it together" and Farage is pointing to that and that is why he said what he said about the EU and Ukraine.