Atheists and proof

[Kdtym10]

On several threads, some atheists have said they would believe in God/the Divine if they had proof. If you’re an atheist what would that proof look like to you?

I dont mind but I also don't understand why you want me to give answers that make sense to you about a being (God) you think is made up? (1Corinthians13)

Because I would like to understand your level of critical thought on such an important question - "why would God allow innocent children to die from cancer?"

I would have thought that such a supposed all loving and all powerful God would prevent such unimaginable suffering of an innocent child.

Given that lots of innocent children, including those of Christian families, are sadly dying, I would like to know whether any of this questions/shakes your belief in God at all?

With all due respect and in the kindest way you keep asking the same question over and over in both this thread and several others. You’ve been given various answers:

1. We don’t understand God’s plan
2. God has no plan
3. Pain and suffering are part of Gods Plan
4. God is everything including pain and happiness, good and evil. In contemplating itself, the purpose of creation each of these things emanate out into the physical universe.
5. There is no God
6. God is not all loving

You’re clearly angry about events you have experienced and probably justifiably so. But going over the same question again and again, demanding answers that will never satisfy you is really really not going to help you. You will never find peace this way.

What do you want people to say? Are you looking for disagreement, are you looking for answers?

@Lalupalina

Because I would like to understand your level of critical thought on such an important question...

Why do you regard yourself as an arbiter of my own or other's levels of critical thought?

Do we have to come on these threads now with our exam certificates? Name the universities we attended? List the books we have read?

I think that would be a different kind of thread altogether.

What do you want people to say? Are you looking for disagreement, are you looking for answers?

I would like to hear how Christians/Believers reconcile their belief in a God that allows such terrible suffering (especially of innocent children)

Does it shake/question their belief in such a God at all?

And, thinking about it some more, it's not just humans that suffer. All other living things suffer as well. Look at the way that nature is “designed” and operates, the one animal is food for the next one, one animal will tear another apart just to survive. Is this really the best an almighty God could manage?

You are asking the same people over and over the same question. Every time you get the same answers that no it doesn’t because of [insert various answers].

Im sorry you appear to have suffered something that has made you very angry at God and by default anyone who believes.

But you won’t find any healing this way. When you’re demanding answers of others are you really demanding answers off yourself? Are you hoping to divest others of their faith or gain it yourself?

I am not angry at anyone and I do not believe in any gods.

I am simply curious and interested in an intellectually stimulating discussion.

Fair enough but it does come across a bit like trying to " divest others of their faith" as Ktdm10 put it, thats maybe just an impression and not a reality i don't know.

I actually have thought about this a lot & I guess most Christians do, my best understanding is there is a level of freedom in creation I.e. everything not just human beings, & there is " broken-ness " which is as a result of freedom (and separation from God which as a Christian I find it makes sense of things but obviously doesn't make suffering any less horrible.But what does help me is knowing God is here with his creation and feeling God's love and guidance. I think its up to us to make things better (so we work with God in a way). If not then why do we even care? Because God made us compassionate beings (mainly), we may struggle but we can also make things better.So that is the redemption for me .

Hope that helps you understand my views.

Also i think this whole view is understandable but almost forgetting all the good stuff like love and how beautiful the world actually is. You could say why the bad as well as the good but you could also say why is there so much goodness. If you know God you recognise his goodness so everything else is stuff I can live with not totally " getting " this side of eternity.

stuff I can live with not totally " getting " this side of eternity.
I think that this may be the crux of the problem. It's a bit of a cop out, this position of "it's a me-problem, not a god-problem". Atheists want answers now, not waiting for eternity (which could well be a figment of imagination and therefore non-existent).

So why keep asking the same question to basically the same group of people?

You’re very quick to write off the imagination

But that's fine bc its an answer for me. Not foisting it on you or anyone who doesnt agree.

Wrong thread sorry

😄

I’ve continued to follow this, and the claims made by the religious are not very persuasive. I didn’t expect anything new - religion being as old as the hills and these arguments have been had many times, although I hoped at least something thought-provoking may have been thrown in. It is interesting to see just how feeble these arguments are. They are not really arguments at all - “I believe in God, and I can’t adequately explain it, but that’s good enough”.

Religious freedom is important. I understand why certain beliefs are valuable to people. I can also see that there may be some benefits to religion such as comfort, and community.

None of these things makes it true though. God is as real as Don Draper.

God is as real as Don Draper.
Awww, Acornsoup's post about "charismatic yet enigmatic" (thanks wiki) Don has been deleted. I thought it was quite pertinent, in an unintentional way.

I haven't seen anybody making an argument. Just explaining how I/we see it, as asked to.

See above. Sharing my perspective. No preaching involved but have done my best answering questions as asked. Which was pointless but feels off to just ignore .

It’s interesting you seem to think that “the religious” are trying to convert you and putting up arguments. I haven’t seen any attempt to convert anyone to religion. Are you sure it’s not all in your imagination?

Religions make certain claims about how the universe works. They say there is a divine order. These all arguments.

That’s not the same as saying that people are trying to convert you, but I do note that Christianity and Islam are actively missionary, proselytising faiths.

The fact you consider whether these arguments are “persuasive” or not indicates you think they were there to persuade.

So where are you on string theory and quantum loop gravity theory?

Religions make claims about reality. I am considering these claims and think they are not persuasive. There’s really no room to be slippery about this, no other angle where you can say that what religions are claiming are not “claims”. This is obfuscation, a classic trick of the religious to put their claims off the table of rational consideration.

I don’t know much about string theory (who does?) but I suspect I know what you are trying to do. Because string theory is spooky and difficult to understand you think that must mean it’s the same as religious woo-woo. It’s not. They are arrived at from completely different methodologies.