Atheists and proof

[Kdtym10]

On several threads, some atheists have said they would believe in God/the Divine if they had proof. If you’re an atheist what would that proof look like to you?

Ok!!!!!’ Thanks for that interesting response!

Ah, I see you missed the description of imagination for these purposes. I haven’t imagined anything for my own psychological purposes.

Anyway, yes I know what the question first asked (I asked it). However, the thread has broadened out now.

I’ve started a new thread as this one is about to fill up https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/philosophy_religion_spirituality/5037728-atheists-and-proof-cont

So if an atheist isn't open to the possibility of God (specifically your god) they're closed minded and lacking humility, but you not being open to the possibility of no god is fine?

@OpalOP & @Lalupalina
simply because I have experience of God through my Christian faith. Which I won't deny. This would be denying part of myself, my lived experience.

Atheist posters have had no experience of (G)god(s) as they recognise it but refuse to entertain the possibility of (G)god(s) existing. They refuse to entertain a possible encounter with (G)god(s) happening ever in the future. That is not the same as rejecting an experience they have lived through.

Sorry 1st sentence should be in bold, it quotes @OpalOP

"Ah, I see you missed the description of imagination for these purposes. I haven’t imagined anything for my own psychological purposes. "

What do you think I have missed? I've read all your posts and nothing that you have said about imagination would change what I have stated - you are describing your own imaginings for your own psychological reasons. I know you disagree, but that's the conclusion that I have come to.

(I don't expect an actual answer to this question, just a patronising response or another bunch of content-free word salad).

Well you’re welcome to conclude whatever you so wish if it makes you feel
better,

Nothing I’ve written is content free. Salads are good for you.

I see you went for the first option.

I see you just expect to be able to state whatever you like with no come back.

There are around 18000 gods which have been worshiped over time

I always find it slightly ironic when people call an atheist closed minded for not believing in 18000 God's when often the person calling them closed minded doesn't believe in 17999 Gods

Ah the old Ricky Gervais quote. If you search the thread and the ones before it for perennial philosophy you will see how this has been addressed previously

I don't ever watch anything with Ricky Gervais in it so I have no idea what quote you are referring to tbh

I don't really have an issue with people who believe in a divinity, or that there is a god of some kind. I find people who have multiple religions before choosing one to be quite interesting to talk to about their beliefs if they are willing.

I do find it ironic and hypocritical when people are only willing to believe there is one true God, who just so happens to be theirs, when often that's no more than a matter or geography, but then accuses others of being closed minded.

There’s a famous scene from an American talk show which basically says what you say

I just see a believe in one God as an iteration bound up in cultural norms of a perennial idea as people try and conceptualise the Divine so I don’t see any conflict

Ah right, I can't stand Ricky Gervais so with the exception of a clip someone posted on MN of him recently in a new show I've pretty much managed to avoid anything with him in it for years

Yes I understand your view point but then I wasn't talking to the type of belief that you have described

There are some people of various religions who are adamant that their god is the only one true God who wouldn't admit that they believe that due to cultural norms but because they are right and others are wrong. That was what I was talking to.

I do find it ironic and hypocritical when people are only willing to believe there is one true God, who just so happens to be theirs, when often that's no more than a matter or geography, but then accuses others of being closed minded.

Yes!

Surely if that person had grown up in a different culture they would very likely believe in another 'god' (Allah, Buddha etc).

There are thousands of religions and they clearly can't all be true!

Ah thanks for clarifying - so it’s more a religion thing than a general belief in a deity?

Yes, I think we discussed the concept of perennial philosophy before - when someone went on a bizarre rant about Aldous Huxley. But I then clarified that the concept Betty much predates his book and was about the concept of a divine force which was reflected in all religions and specific religions were just a way of describing that divine force based on specific cultural needs. What are your thoughts on that?

@dimllaishebiaith you quoted me so I think it's me you were accusing of being a hypocrite. I don't think it's hypocrisy to relay honestly your own experiences of God in a Christian context if that's what you have experienced.

I made no comment as to other religions and belief systems having truth in them or not as they are not what I have experienced. Maybe they reflect different people's encounters and their understanding of them with the same God or maybe they reflect different people's encounters with entities other than God. I don't know as I have not experienced what they have.

What I can say is that I am content with my own Christian faith in terms of finding unity with God.

Yes exactly.

It's the calling other people closed minded because they don't believe what you believe, not you relaying your own experiences

Yeah that's still hypocritical as fuck. Arrogant too. Berating and insulting people for refusing to acknowledge they might be wrong while refusing to acknowledge you might be wrong.

@dimllaishebiaith is close minded an insult? We all close our minds to possibilities that are unpalatable to us. However this is indeed not scientific or unbiased.

I illustrated why as I said refusing to try a commonly accepted method of reaching God in a post was closed minded to the possibility it might work.

It's like someone talking about a pattern of outcomes illustrated through performing certain operations done by others and the other person not believing them and also refusing to try themselves.

is close minded an insult?

Where did I say it was?

I said that calling people closed minded when you are closed minded is hypocritical, especially as you didn't admit your own closed mindedness until asked and instead posited yourself as the open minded humble person in the conversation.

It's hubris.

It's like someone talking about a pattern of outcomes illustrated through performing certain operations done by others and the other person not believing them and also refusing to try themselves.

I don't believe homeopathy works. If I had cancer I would get chemotherapy (or other appropriate treatment). If I met someone who told me that they were cured of the same cancer through forsaking chemotherapy because they firmly believed it was wrong and homeopathy cured them that alone wouldn't be sufficient to convince me to change my course of treatment.

Would that make me closed minded? Possibly. Would that make the person who refused to peruse conventional medicine equally close minded, also possibly.

Would not pursuing homeopathy be a rational sensible decision which made sense to refuse to try, absolutely. No one has to try everything.

I agree with you about specific religions.

@dimllaishebiaith the reason I didn't mention my own closed mindedness towards atheism is because how can you be close minded towards an absence of belief? Closing the mind involves belief. Opening the mind towards a possibility involves belief.