Atheists and proof

[Kdtym10]

On several threads, some atheists have said they would believe in God/the Divine if they had proof. If you’re an atheist what would that proof look like to you?

There is no "spiritual" world. That's a meaningless phrase to me.

Oh no, I was left with ptsd by such a doctor. I’ve spent thousands overcoming his God complex and consequence when I was left with ptsd. Unfortunately almost every time I’ve come across another (with very rare exceptions of some lovely ones) it’s the same. I’m so glad there’s so many investigations into maternity care these days highlighting exactly this problem.

Interesting because my experience says there is.

I don't define it. I only used that word because it's what you would understand as 'spirituality'.

If I'm considering a tricky issue I might - in addition to talking to people - meditate, write, go for a walk, have a long shower. Other people would do different things. You would pray.

Neuropsychologically, we are all doing the same thing. But I'm not getting into that now, partly because I'd have to check my facts before typing and partly because you attribute your outcome to an external entity.

Evidence?

What is your experience of a spiritual world? How can you evidence that?

Didn’t you bring i up the asparagus?

It was a hypothetical bit of asparagus using the analogy being used by the poster I was responding to.

St Thomas Aquinas hit the nail on the head. For those that have faith no proof is required for those who lack faith no proof is enough

Lalupalina: If there is no evidence of asparagus in the fridge, there is no asparagus in the fridge.

Kdtym: The asparagus might be invisible. So might the fridge!

Sleepmoreplease: Even if they're invisible, a blind person could identify the presence or absence of asparagus. There's no such thing as totally undetectable asparagus (except when asparagus is absent).

Kdtym: Didn’t you bring up the asparagus?

You're trolling your own thread, aren't you 😂

@Garlicking

Neuropsychologically, we are all doing the same thing. But I'm not getting into that now, partly because I'd have to check my facts before typing and partly because you attribute your outcome to an external entity.

Don't you sometimes ponder upon how people have known about this quirk of our neurological makeup centuries before we had the technology to scan brains or examine them under a microscope? This is the stuff which connects us to people since the dawn of time. Just because there is physical result from performing certain practices does not mean there is not a spiritual origin to that, in that the spiritual can manifest physically.

Why is god only interested in property disputes and ownership. Where have they been for the last 2000 years. Why are there no new prophets.

Are god clubs just controlling manipulation, usually to elevate a particular man or group of men, V similar to politicians?

It really just seems like a bunch of simple minded superstition to me.

Why wasps. Why pedophiles. Why Donald Trump. Why are some men allowed multiple wives depending on geography and hairstyles?

Why did Jesus have to sacrifice himself for the rest of us?

Proof to me would look like positive intervention. Drop the vengeful routine. It's so 2000 years ago.

I get sooo frustrated by these debates so apologies I've skimmed not properly read this. I have faith and it feels like a visceral hatred aimed at me if i enter a discussion on faith/religion/god with an atheist.

I now take the stance that I don't talk about it. I let it be known I have faith and leave it at that. If someone wants to ask questions and is respectful while I explain my experiences and why I believe then all good but we don't need to push it in them. Jesus told us to spread the good news. People know about god and know where to ask/find out more- in this country we have religious freedom- I don't have to engage in conversations that just leave everyone frustrated.

I think what one person considers proof another would argue was coincidence. Natural happening etc. Belief and faith and those moments your faith is confirmed in your mind is soooo personal no one else is going to understand it because no one else can know exactly how it feels to be you. One example of this is those who believe in gender identity- there is a huge amount of evidence humans cannot change sex and many many people who argue gender is a harmful social construct with multiple examples and evidence- but believers just can't see it. Their faith in their beliefs is that strong. It's the same with most atheists and in the case of a god you wont be able to produce the scientific proof with robust research methods and peer review needed to convert an atheist.

We just need to respect people have different views and are entitled to them. They are entitled to express them. You might feel they are an idiot but do you need to let them know by entering an argument? Debate and discussion is completely fine but it's the undertone of anger/agression or whatever it's called that comes at you when talking about your faith I just can't be doing with anymore

Faith and religion are not the same thing in my opinion. You can be spiritual and have faith without following a particular set of club rules.

This is the stuff which connects us to people since the dawn of time.

Indeed it is, @heyhohello. Nearly four billion years in the evolution, and still ongoing. Amazing, isn't it?! I don't really understand why people prefer to think inspiration & intuition come from an invisible being, rather than honouring the billions of creatures whose lives contributed to ours. But each to their own ...

Don't you sometimes ponder upon how people have known about this quirk of our neurological makeup centuries before we had the technology to scan brains?

Er, no 😂 People have known about what their bodies do for much longer than we've known how they do it!

@PurpleBugz you surely can't expect people to take as a truth a subjective experience that is unique to you that you can't explain and don't really want anyone to question. Evidence for the existence of a god would need to stand up to the usual standards for scientific proofs, repeatable, useable as a predictor, etc etc.

I don't see why it's hateful or a visceral attack on you to say that, on a thread where atheists have specifically been asked to discuss their thoughts on this.

St Thomas Aquinas hit the nail on the head. For those that have faith no proof is required for those who lack faith no proof is enough

If you've actually read this thread properly you will see that the atheists here would change our mind in the presence of evidence!

And people over many centuries, since the dawn of time, have sought God/other spiritual entities and found Him/other spiritual entities. I don't dismiss their experiences and knowledge like some others would on this thread.

@heyhohello ". I don't dismiss their experiences and knowledge". Can I ask why? What is it about their experiences that you find compelling evidence that their faith is not misplaced?

@fedupandstuck because I have had similar experiences.

Ok, so what was it about your experiences that was compelling evidence for the existence of a deity or however you want to label it?

@fedupandstuck prayers answered, immediately in some cases.

And how did you realise that was not just a coincidence? Can you reproduce that effect now? Can you tell me what I can do to have the same effect?

@PurpleBugz I cannot see the similarities between the biological sex vs gender debate and the belief in a mythical god?

Also, this thread specifically asked for atheists' views about what proof they would need in order to accept that a god exists.

But knowledge is based on facts and evidence at the time. People used to think the earth was flat. Now most of us know it's not flat, based on evidence.

It's not dismissing the views of our ancestors to recognise that throughout the course of time there could be similar shifts in thinking based on evidence.